Discussion:
Saving Tbird e-mail files? -
(too old to reply)
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-17 21:33:06 UTC
Permalink
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,

I usually have two Fedora computers as is the case now. I would like
to move the mail from the F-11 box to the new F-12 installation on a
second computer. The Thunderbirds mail import function looks for
something in "Communicator 4x" or some such thing but is very
inflexible. "Communicator 4x" doesn't exist on any of my computers!

Is there a known working procedure to accomplish this. I routinely
transfer files between them via sftp and nfs. But those mail files
defy all my attempts.

Any help appreciated.

Bob
Steven Stern
2009-12-17 21:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
I usually have two Fedora computers as is the case now. I would like
to move the mail from the F-11 box to the new F-12 installation on a
second computer. The Thunderbirds mail import function looks for
something in "Communicator 4x" or some such thing but is very
inflexible. "Communicator 4x" doesn't exist on any of my computers!
Is there a known working procedure to accomplish this. I routinely
transfer files between them via sftp and nfs. But those mail files
defy all my attempts.
Any help appreciated.
Bob
I just move the ~/.thunderbird directory from install to install. All
the relevant files are there.
--
Steve
Mail Lists
2009-12-18 01:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.

A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are

(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.

(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.

mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.


[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]

And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.

good luck!
Kevin J. Cummings
2009-12-18 01:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.
A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are
(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.
(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.
mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.
[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]
And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.
What is GLODA and where does one look to turn it off?
Post by Mail Lists
good luck!
--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome at rcn.com
cummings at kjchome.homeip.net
cummings at kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
Mail Lists
2009-12-18 01:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin J. Cummings
What is GLODA and where does one look to turn it off?
Post by Mail Lists
good luck!
Edit->Preferences->Advanced Tab

Uncheck GLObal Indexer ...
Mail Lists
2009-12-18 01:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin J. Cummings
What is GLODA and where does one look to turn it off?
Post by Mail Lists
good luck!
Edit->Preferences->Advanced Tab

Uncheck GLObal Indexer ...
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-18 23:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.
A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are
(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.
(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.
mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.
[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]
And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.
good luck!
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
Mail Lists
2009-12-19 01:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.

1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)

e.g a line such as:

mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir


2) service dovecot start

3) chkconfig dovecot on

Then in your thunderbird just create a new account -
server will be 127.0.0.1
(or whatever the IP or hostname on your local network the server
is running on)

user name (your login on the computer)

connection security - STARTTLS

Thats it. Create whatever folders you need and then use them.

*** Minor Subtlety:

You may find (likely will) that thunderbird will complain about the
ssl certificate being self signed by an unknown authority - for now just
tell it its ok - to remove this you'll need to create a better cert -
which is signed by a known certificate authority.

I suggest a free server certificate from startcom - which is probably
your best bet. They are quick and easy and thunderbird and firefox have
them listed already as an acceptable CA (certficate authority). There
are others but most cost money - avoid things like cacert.org as they
are not known by any browser.


Go here:

http://www.startssl.com/

Once you get the server certificate from them - you'll have 2 files -
a key file (ssl.key) and a xxx.crt file.

You'll ;likely need to convert them to pem format using something like

openssl x509 -inform der -in xxx.crt -out xxx.pem

The edit the dovecot.conf file again and look for the lines

ssl_cert_file
and
ssl_key_file ...

Change the to point to your lovely new certificate and restart dovecot
(service dovecot restart).

Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...

gene
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 10:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.
1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)
mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir
2) service dovecot start
3) chkconfig dovecot on
Then in your thunderbird just create a new account -
server will be 127.0.0.1
(or whatever the IP or hostname on your local network the server
is running on)
user name (your login on the computer)
connection security - STARTTLS
Thats it. Create whatever folders you need and then use them.
You may find (likely will) that thunderbird will complain about the
ssl certificate being self signed by an unknown authority - for now just
tell it its ok - to remove this you'll need to create a better cert -
which is signed by a known certificate authority.
I suggest a free server certificate from startcom - which is probably
your best bet. They are quick and easy and thunderbird and firefox have
them listed already as an acceptable CA (certficate authority). There
are others but most cost money - avoid things like cacert.org as they
are not known by any browser.
http://www.startssl.com/
Once you get the server certificate from them - you'll have 2 files -
a key file (ssl.key) and a xxx.crt file.
You'll ;likely need to convert them to pem format using something like
openssl x509 -inform der -in xxx.crt -out xxx.pem
The edit the dovecot.conf file again and look for the lines
ssl_cert_file
and
ssl_key_file ...
Change the to point to your lovely new certificate and restart dovecot
(service dovecot restart).
Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...
gene
Thanks for your suggestions. I intend to try as you have outlined
later this morning.
Much appreciated.
Bob
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 21:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.
1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)
............. snip .................
Post by Mail Lists
Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...
gene
Thanks for your suggestions. I intend to try as you have outlined
later this morning.
Much appreciated.
Bob
Ok, I've installed Dovecot, made some changes to the config. file
and started it. Then told gmail I wanted to "enable" IMAP. Although
I have a "wildblue" address they gave up their mail servers and
shunted everyone over to google! Not the best deal for users perhaps
but I had no choice. Rural users are stuck without CATV or Telco DSL
internet service so the satellite providers have no competition.

Anyway now that I've done this the system is dumping everything it
has on me, presently 4091 trash files! Hopefully that is all,
probably ~7k messages in total.

I still don't understand how this works but I will in pretty short
order I guess? Where are these messages being saved? On my F-12
computer somewhere in Dovecot I hope.

What do I have to configure in another computer to access the IMAP
messages? Do I simply add an IMAP user to Thunderbird, the email
program I have been using for some time. If the messages are stored
in my computer, other computers need to look there and connect via
my LAN [wired and wireless]. I'm already in over my head despite
reading a lot of instructions on how to set this up!.

Any help is appreciated.

Bob

.
Mike Cloaked
2009-12-19 22:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
Ok, I've installed Dovecot, made some changes to the config. file
and started it. Then told gmail I wanted to "enable" IMAP. Although
I have a "wildblue" address they gave up their mail servers and
shunted everyone over to google! Not the best deal for users perhaps
but I had no choice. Rural users are stuck without CATV or Telco DSL
internet service so the satellite providers have no competition.
Anyway now that I've done this the system is dumping everything it
has on me, presently 4091 trash files! Hopefully that is all,
probably ~7k messages in total.
I still don't understand how this works but I will in pretty short
order I guess? Where are these messages being saved? On my F-12
computer somewhere in Dovecot I hope.
What do I have to configure in another computer to access the IMAP
messages? Do I simply add an IMAP user to Thunderbird, the email
program I have been using for some time. If the messages are stored
in my computer, other computers need to look there and connect via
my LAN [wired and wireless]. I'm already in over my head despite
reading a lot of instructions on how to set this up!.
Any help is appreciated.
When you told gmail that you want to access it via imap then you presumably
set up an imap gmail account in Thunderbird? What this then will do is to
get the mail client (Thunderbird) to access gmail via the imap server held
at gmail.

This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately) connect
to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account pointing to
127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e. make sure that
as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on" to start it at
boot - and check that the service is running by "service dovecot status")

Now when you start Thunderbird with both the gmail imap account as well as
the local imap account defined within Thunderbird then you will see two sets
of mail but at this stage the only mail that you will see populated is the
gmail account. i.e. Thunderbird as email client, is making connections to
two independent imap servers - one at gmail and the other in your local
machine.

If you wish you can then copy mail from the gmail server to your own dovecot
server, either manually or by setting up local filter rules within
Thunderbird. You can set rules up to make copies of all mail at gmail onto
your local imap server from within Thunderbird so that each time Thunderbird
checks for new mail at gmail it will copy to your local server.

You configure the rules in which ever way is most convenient for you.
However once this is all done then you can start a different mail client
(such as Evolution for example) and set up a local imap account which will
then see any email that is already stored (and handled) by dovecot locally.
You can of course also set it up to look at gmail and transfer files to the
local imap if you wish - and then run either mail client whenever you feel
like it, and use the best facilities of the one you are running at any time.

So re-capping:
1) Set up local imap server - dovecot.
2) Set up email client eg Thunderbird and/or Evolution and/or kmail etc with
each email client having an account pointing to any mail servers where you
have email - one account may be gmail, another your local dovecot imap, and
you may have a yahoo account or others as well
3) Set up filter rules to copy mail from one or other of these servers to
any of the others - each "account" set up in an email client points to a
different server.

One possible use is when your isp runs only a pop3 mail server - you can get
your Thunderbird to connect to that but then to copy mail from that server
to your local server and then any other mail client can see the same emails
by pointing them to the local dovecot imap server.

I hope this helps
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Saving-Tbird-e-mail-files----tp26835345p26859000.html
Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Mike Cloaked
2009-12-19 22:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately)
connect to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account
pointing to 127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e.
make sure that as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on"
to start it at boot - and check that the service is running by "service
dovecot status")
Sorry there was a typo in the above should have been "service dovecot
start" and not "dovecot service start" !!
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Saving-Tbird-e-mail-files----tp26835345p26859026.html
Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 23:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
Post by Mike Cloaked
This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately)
connect to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account
pointing to 127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e.
make sure that as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on"
to start it at boot - and check that the service is running by "service
dovecot status")
Sorry there was a typo in the above should have been "service dovecot
start" and not "dovecot service start" !!
The typo is no problem, I've already found service dovecto
status/start/stop/.

This is not clear to me yet, do I need dovecot on a second computer to
set up a "local account?" Do I need a t'bird IMAP account on each
computer? Confusion reigns at this point but fear not I will get it
eventually.

I am sending this from the F12 [dovecot]. Now to see if it will send. I
collected your message so that much is working. We are having rain and
snow in Virginia and my tiny ku band transmitter has trouble reaching
the satellite. I'll try to send again later .

Thanks.

Bob
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 23:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
Post by Mike Cloaked
This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately)
connect to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account
pointing to 127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e.
make sure that as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on"
to start it at boot - and check that the service is running by "service
dovecot status")
Sorry there was a typo in the above should have been "service dovecot
start" and not "dovecot service start" !!
The typo is no problem, I've already found service dovecto
status/start/stop/.

This is not clear to me yet, do I need dovecot on a second computer to
set up a "local account?" Do I need a t'bird IMAP account on each
computer? Confusion reigns at this point but fear not I will get it
eventually.

I am sending this from the F12 [dovecot]. Now to see if it will send. I
collected your message so that much is working. We are having rain and
snow in Virginia and my tiny ku band transmitter has trouble reaching
the satellite. I'll try to send again later .

Thanks.

Bob
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-20 00:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
1) Set up local imap server - dovecot.
2) Set up email client eg Thunderbird and/or Evolution and/or kmail etc with
each email client having an account pointing to any mail servers where you
have email - one account may be gmail, another your local dovecot imap, and
you may have a yahoo account or others as well
3) Set up filter rules to copy mail from one or other of these servers to
any of the others - each "account" set up in an email client points to a
different server.
I hope this helps
I found that I could set up a "movemail" account in Thunderbird. I
made one for "bobg at 192.168.1.106" which should be the computer with
the server, clicked on "get mail" but nothing showed? Perhaps I
missed something in dovecot config.?

Bob
Mail Lists
2009-12-20 05:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Slow it down a moment - lets get some concepts clear.

gmail does 3 things for you ..

1) it receives your mail

2) it send mail on your behalf


3) it lets you store the mail it has received and read the mail
that it has received for you.


(1) & (2) are mail server functions.

(3) is an imap server function.

So when you set up an local imap server - you are setting up a server
that allows you to store and read emails. This is (3).

In thunderbird you 'add an account' and as I described in first email
- set it up for your imap server.

Once that is done you should have 2 accounts in thunderbird - gmail
and the second one you created.

In thunderbird you can drag or copy emails from gmail to your second
account.

Thats it.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-20 08:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Slow it down a moment - lets get some concepts clear.
gmail does 3 things for you ..
1) it receives your mail
2) it send mail on your behalf
3) it lets you store the mail it has received and read the mail
that it has received for you.
(1)& (2) are mail server functions.
(3) is an imap server function.
So when you set up an local imap server - you are setting up a server
that allows you to store and read emails. This is (3).
In thunderbird you 'add an account' and as I described in first email
- set it up for your imap server.
Once that is done you should have 2 accounts in thunderbird - gmail
and the second one you created.
In thunderbird you can drag or copy emails from gmail to your second
account.
Thats it.
I am good through steps one, two, and three then on the F-12
server but the second part of my experimental effort is to move a
message from the server to this compuster box 9 [192.168.1.109] on
the wired LAN, connected through an Ethernet bridge, a part of a
Buffalo wireless device that also ties these cvomputers to the
router downstairs in the den. The LAN works well, no problems with it.
Where I am having trouble is understanding how to set up
Thunderbird accounts on this second [client [box9]] computer. I
found an entry in the account setup GUI called "movemail" which
sounds like the right place to enter the account info. I made an
account there forthe server [F-12 box6] but have not been able to
extract files from the server to the client. I suspect there may
be something left undone in dovecot.conf, all I did there was
un-comment a few items that obviously [to me] needed to be ...
Part of my problem is that I have been trying to do a number of
things at once, but have tried to block my thinking from the other
stuff and concentrate on this. Other stuff; converting this box to
F-12, and a new Laser printer that seems only to like Windows XP.
I had Windows lurking on this computer but had never booted it or
set it up for internet/LAN operation, Windows stuff is mostly
beyond my comprehension and I had to figure how to set that up.
Windows is not Linux, there's no help with it, not for me anyway!
To add to the confusion it seems Windows had some effect on the
router that disrupted LAN operation, a panic ensued since other
family members notice disruption of their Mac boxes! Things are
calm there now, the LAN is restored to normal. I offer that just
as background information.
My question is why can't I collect messages from the server on the
client. I can "drag" items around on both computers but the client
sees only what arrives via the gmail POP server. It has an imap
account set up to point to the server [192.168.1.106 [box6]] in
additon to it's original pop.gmail.com.
Bob
Mail Lists
2009-12-20 17:55:17 UTC
Permalink
o Using gmail - with imap - leaves the mail on gmail server.
gmail with pop - removes the mail from gmail and stores
wherever you told your mail client to store it - once you've done this -
unless you store it on your own imap server then no other client will be
able to see that pop mail.

o so you should leave gmail accounts all set to imap - unless you want
to pull the mail off gmail and store it.


o your dovecot server is just like any other mail server - just set up
a new IMAP account - use IP or (or hostname if your computers can see
the host name).


o each mail client you set up should have

gmail imap
your own imap

as accounts.

Then to move or copy mail just use mouse to drag or copy message(s) from
gmail to your own imap account.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-21 00:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
o Using gmail - with imap - leaves the mail on gmail server.
gmail with pop - removes the mail from gmail and stores
wherever you told your mail client to store it - once you've done this -
unless you store it on your own imap server then no other client will be
able to see that pop mail.
o so you should leave gmail accounts all set to imap - unless you want
to pull the mail off gmail and store it.
o your dovecot server is just like any other mail server - just set up
a new IMAP account - use IP or (or hostname if your computers can see
the host name).
o each mail client you set up should have
gmail imap
your own imap
as accounts.
Then to move or copy mail just use mouse to drag or copy message(s) from
gmail to your own imap account.
Ok, I'm still digesting all of this and imap is becoming useable on
this F-12 computer. I think I will switch the other one over too and
see if I can get along with imap for a while. Don't know what
Thunderbird is doing but sometimes it takes a long time to display a
message and that can be maddening? Something to do with imap.

And each time I select a directory the cursor runs that blue swirl
for at least ten seconds, don't know what that means?

Also I am trying to delete some of the many directories that were
created initially, some like "spam" can't be deleted though. I have
the mail filters putting stuff where I want it now.

I usually keep all my mail sorted into directories and threaded and
I'm finally getting that under control. The system is usable as it
is, I don't know about some of the delays I'm seeing ... Anyway I've
come this far and intend to give it a try. Making the dovecot server
work will have to wait but I will get that under control also in time.

Thanks for your patience and help.

Bob


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Bob Goodwin
2009-12-21 00:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
o Using gmail - with imap - leaves the mail on gmail server.
gmail with pop - removes the mail from gmail and stores
wherever you told your mail client to store it - once you've done this -
unless you store it on your own imap server then no other client will be
able to see that pop mail.
o so you should leave gmail accounts all set to imap - unless you want
to pull the mail off gmail and store it.
o your dovecot server is just like any other mail server - just set up
a new IMAP account - use IP or (or hostname if your computers can see
the host name).
o each mail client you set up should have
gmail imap
your own imap
as accounts.
Then to move or copy mail just use mouse to drag or copy message(s) from
gmail to your own imap account.
Ok, I'm still digesting all of this and imap is becoming useable on
this F-12 computer. I think I will switch the other one over too and
see if I can get along with imap for a while. Don't know what
Thunderbird is doing but sometimes it takes a long time to display a
message and that can be maddening? Something to do with imap.

And each time I select a directory the cursor runs that blue swirl
for at least ten seconds, don't know what that means?

Also I am trying to delete some of the many directories that were
created initially, some like "spam" can't be deleted though. I have
the mail filters putting stuff where I want it now.

I usually keep all my mail sorted into directories and threaded and
I'm finally getting that under control. The system is usable as it
is, I don't know about some of the delays I'm seeing ... Anyway I've
come this far and intend to give it a try. Making the dovecot server
work will have to wait but I will get that under control also in time.

Thanks for your patience and help.

Bob


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Mail Lists
2009-12-20 17:55:17 UTC
Permalink
o Using gmail - with imap - leaves the mail on gmail server.
gmail with pop - removes the mail from gmail and stores
wherever you told your mail client to store it - once you've done this -
unless you store it on your own imap server then no other client will be
able to see that pop mail.

o so you should leave gmail accounts all set to imap - unless you want
to pull the mail off gmail and store it.


o your dovecot server is just like any other mail server - just set up
a new IMAP account - use IP or (or hostname if your computers can see
the host name).


o each mail client you set up should have

gmail imap
your own imap

as accounts.

Then to move or copy mail just use mouse to drag or copy message(s) from
gmail to your own imap account.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-20 08:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Slow it down a moment - lets get some concepts clear.
gmail does 3 things for you ..
1) it receives your mail
2) it send mail on your behalf
3) it lets you store the mail it has received and read the mail
that it has received for you.
(1)& (2) are mail server functions.
(3) is an imap server function.
So when you set up an local imap server - you are setting up a server
that allows you to store and read emails. This is (3).
In thunderbird you 'add an account' and as I described in first email
- set it up for your imap server.
Once that is done you should have 2 accounts in thunderbird - gmail
and the second one you created.
In thunderbird you can drag or copy emails from gmail to your second
account.
Thats it.
I am good through steps one, two, and three then on the F-12
server but the second part of my experimental effort is to move a
message from the server to this compuster box 9 [192.168.1.109] on
the wired LAN, connected through an Ethernet bridge, a part of a
Buffalo wireless device that also ties these cvomputers to the
router downstairs in the den. The LAN works well, no problems with it.
Where I am having trouble is understanding how to set up
Thunderbird accounts on this second [client [box9]] computer. I
found an entry in the account setup GUI called "movemail" which
sounds like the right place to enter the account info. I made an
account there forthe server [F-12 box6] but have not been able to
extract files from the server to the client. I suspect there may
be something left undone in dovecot.conf, all I did there was
un-comment a few items that obviously [to me] needed to be ...
Part of my problem is that I have been trying to do a number of
things at once, but have tried to block my thinking from the other
stuff and concentrate on this. Other stuff; converting this box to
F-12, and a new Laser printer that seems only to like Windows XP.
I had Windows lurking on this computer but had never booted it or
set it up for internet/LAN operation, Windows stuff is mostly
beyond my comprehension and I had to figure how to set that up.
Windows is not Linux, there's no help with it, not for me anyway!
To add to the confusion it seems Windows had some effect on the
router that disrupted LAN operation, a panic ensued since other
family members notice disruption of their Mac boxes! Things are
calm there now, the LAN is restored to normal. I offer that just
as background information.
My question is why can't I collect messages from the server on the
client. I can "drag" items around on both computers but the client
sees only what arrives via the gmail POP server. It has an imap
account set up to point to the server [192.168.1.106 [box6]] in
additon to it's original pop.gmail.com.
Bob
Mail Lists
2009-12-20 05:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Slow it down a moment - lets get some concepts clear.

gmail does 3 things for you ..

1) it receives your mail

2) it send mail on your behalf


3) it lets you store the mail it has received and read the mail
that it has received for you.


(1) & (2) are mail server functions.

(3) is an imap server function.

So when you set up an local imap server - you are setting up a server
that allows you to store and read emails. This is (3).

In thunderbird you 'add an account' and as I described in first email
- set it up for your imap server.

Once that is done you should have 2 accounts in thunderbird - gmail
and the second one you created.

In thunderbird you can drag or copy emails from gmail to your second
account.

Thats it.
Mike Cloaked
2009-12-19 22:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately)
connect to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account
pointing to 127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e.
make sure that as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on"
to start it at boot - and check that the service is running by "service
dovecot status")
Sorry there was a typo in the above should have been "service dovecot
start" and not "dovecot service start" !!
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Saving-Tbird-e-mail-files----tp26835345p26859026.html
Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-20 00:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Cloaked
1) Set up local imap server - dovecot.
2) Set up email client eg Thunderbird and/or Evolution and/or kmail etc with
each email client having an account pointing to any mail servers where you
have email - one account may be gmail, another your local dovecot imap, and
you may have a yahoo account or others as well
3) Set up filter rules to copy mail from one or other of these servers to
any of the others - each "account" set up in an email client points to a
different server.
I hope this helps
I found that I could set up a "movemail" account in Thunderbird. I
made one for "bobg at 192.168.1.106" which should be the computer with
the server, clicked on "get mail" but nothing showed? Perhaps I
missed something in dovecot config.?

Bob
Mike Cloaked
2009-12-19 22:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
Ok, I've installed Dovecot, made some changes to the config. file
and started it. Then told gmail I wanted to "enable" IMAP. Although
I have a "wildblue" address they gave up their mail servers and
shunted everyone over to google! Not the best deal for users perhaps
but I had no choice. Rural users are stuck without CATV or Telco DSL
internet service so the satellite providers have no competition.
Anyway now that I've done this the system is dumping everything it
has on me, presently 4091 trash files! Hopefully that is all,
probably ~7k messages in total.
I still don't understand how this works but I will in pretty short
order I guess? Where are these messages being saved? On my F-12
computer somewhere in Dovecot I hope.
What do I have to configure in another computer to access the IMAP
messages? Do I simply add an IMAP user to Thunderbird, the email
program I have been using for some time. If the messages are stored
in my computer, other computers need to look there and connect via
my LAN [wired and wireless]. I'm already in over my head despite
reading a lot of instructions on how to set this up!.
Any help is appreciated.
When you told gmail that you want to access it via imap then you presumably
set up an imap gmail account in Thunderbird? What this then will do is to
get the mail client (Thunderbird) to access gmail via the imap server held
at gmail.

This is not directly related to the dovecot imap server that you will have
set up on your own machine. You can get Thunderbird to (separately) connect
to you own imap server if you set up a "local" imap account pointing to
127.0.0.1 and have the dovecot service running locally (i.e. make sure that
as root "dovecot service start", and "chkconfig dovecot on" to start it at
boot - and check that the service is running by "service dovecot status")

Now when you start Thunderbird with both the gmail imap account as well as
the local imap account defined within Thunderbird then you will see two sets
of mail but at this stage the only mail that you will see populated is the
gmail account. i.e. Thunderbird as email client, is making connections to
two independent imap servers - one at gmail and the other in your local
machine.

If you wish you can then copy mail from the gmail server to your own dovecot
server, either manually or by setting up local filter rules within
Thunderbird. You can set rules up to make copies of all mail at gmail onto
your local imap server from within Thunderbird so that each time Thunderbird
checks for new mail at gmail it will copy to your local server.

You configure the rules in which ever way is most convenient for you.
However once this is all done then you can start a different mail client
(such as Evolution for example) and set up a local imap account which will
then see any email that is already stored (and handled) by dovecot locally.
You can of course also set it up to look at gmail and transfer files to the
local imap if you wish - and then run either mail client whenever you feel
like it, and use the best facilities of the one you are running at any time.

So re-capping:
1) Set up local imap server - dovecot.
2) Set up email client eg Thunderbird and/or Evolution and/or kmail etc with
each email client having an account pointing to any mail servers where you
have email - one account may be gmail, another your local dovecot imap, and
you may have a yahoo account or others as well
3) Set up filter rules to copy mail from one or other of these servers to
any of the others - each "account" set up in an email client points to a
different server.

One possible use is when your isp runs only a pop3 mail server - you can get
your Thunderbird to connect to that but then to copy mail from that server
to your local server and then any other mail client can see the same emails
by pointing them to the local dovecot imap server.

I hope this helps
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Saving-Tbird-e-mail-files----tp26835345p26859000.html
Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 21:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.
1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)
............. snip .................
Post by Mail Lists
Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...
gene
Thanks for your suggestions. I intend to try as you have outlined
later this morning.
Much appreciated.
Bob
Ok, I've installed Dovecot, made some changes to the config. file
and started it. Then told gmail I wanted to "enable" IMAP. Although
I have a "wildblue" address they gave up their mail servers and
shunted everyone over to google! Not the best deal for users perhaps
but I had no choice. Rural users are stuck without CATV or Telco DSL
internet service so the satellite providers have no competition.

Anyway now that I've done this the system is dumping everything it
has on me, presently 4091 trash files! Hopefully that is all,
probably ~7k messages in total.

I still don't understand how this works but I will in pretty short
order I guess? Where are these messages being saved? On my F-12
computer somewhere in Dovecot I hope.

What do I have to configure in another computer to access the IMAP
messages? Do I simply add an IMAP user to Thunderbird, the email
program I have been using for some time. If the messages are stored
in my computer, other computers need to look there and connect via
my LAN [wired and wireless]. I'm already in over my head despite
reading a lot of instructions on how to set this up!.

Any help is appreciated.

Bob

.
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-19 10:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.
1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)
mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir
2) service dovecot start
3) chkconfig dovecot on
Then in your thunderbird just create a new account -
server will be 127.0.0.1
(or whatever the IP or hostname on your local network the server
is running on)
user name (your login on the computer)
connection security - STARTTLS
Thats it. Create whatever folders you need and then use them.
You may find (likely will) that thunderbird will complain about the
ssl certificate being self signed by an unknown authority - for now just
tell it its ok - to remove this you'll need to create a better cert -
which is signed by a known certificate authority.
I suggest a free server certificate from startcom - which is probably
your best bet. They are quick and easy and thunderbird and firefox have
them listed already as an acceptable CA (certficate authority). There
are others but most cost money - avoid things like cacert.org as they
are not known by any browser.
http://www.startssl.com/
Once you get the server certificate from them - you'll have 2 files -
a key file (ssl.key) and a xxx.crt file.
You'll ;likely need to convert them to pem format using something like
openssl x509 -inform der -in xxx.crt -out xxx.pem
The edit the dovecot.conf file again and look for the lines
ssl_cert_file
and
ssl_key_file ...
Change the to point to your lovely new certificate and restart dovecot
(service dovecot restart).
Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...
gene
Thanks for your suggestions. I intend to try as you have outlined
later this morning.
Much appreciated.
Bob
Mail Lists
2009-12-19 01:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
I dont have a walk-through howto so I will wing it .. I will assume
for now that you will not be using or running your own hosted
sendmail/postfix server (that is a little more involved) and all you
want is an imap server to store local mail.

1) As root edit /etc/dovecot.conf and make sure you have a directive
to use maildir and store it in your home directory under Maildir (or
whatever you want to use)

e.g a line such as:

mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir


2) service dovecot start

3) chkconfig dovecot on

Then in your thunderbird just create a new account -
server will be 127.0.0.1
(or whatever the IP or hostname on your local network the server
is running on)

user name (your login on the computer)

connection security - STARTTLS

Thats it. Create whatever folders you need and then use them.

*** Minor Subtlety:

You may find (likely will) that thunderbird will complain about the
ssl certificate being self signed by an unknown authority - for now just
tell it its ok - to remove this you'll need to create a better cert -
which is signed by a known certificate authority.

I suggest a free server certificate from startcom - which is probably
your best bet. They are quick and easy and thunderbird and firefox have
them listed already as an acceptable CA (certficate authority). There
are others but most cost money - avoid things like cacert.org as they
are not known by any browser.


Go here:

http://www.startssl.com/

Once you get the server certificate from them - you'll have 2 files -
a key file (ssl.key) and a xxx.crt file.

You'll ;likely need to convert them to pem format using something like

openssl x509 -inform der -in xxx.crt -out xxx.pem

The edit the dovecot.conf file again and look for the lines

ssl_cert_file
and
ssl_key_file ...

Change the to point to your lovely new certificate and restart dovecot
(service dovecot restart).

Best of luck. Look in /var/log/maillog for hints of any problems ...

gene
Kevin J. Cummings
2009-12-18 01:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.
A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are
(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.
(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.
mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.
[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]
And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.
What is GLODA and where does one look to turn it off?
Post by Mail Lists
good luck!
--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome at rcn.com
cummings at kjchome.homeip.net
cummings at kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-18 23:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mail Lists
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.
A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are
(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.
(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.
mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.
[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]
And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.
good luck!
Ok, I give up! Where can I find instructions, hopefully step by
step, to install IMAP with a local server? That sounds like the
solution to this problem and a few others.
Bob
Bob Goodwin
2009-12-17 21:33:06 UTC
Permalink
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,

I usually have two Fedora computers as is the case now. I would like
to move the mail from the F-11 box to the new F-12 installation on a
second computer. The Thunderbirds mail import function looks for
something in "Communicator 4x" or some such thing but is very
inflexible. "Communicator 4x" doesn't exist on any of my computers!

Is there a known working procedure to accomplish this. I routinely
transfer files between them via sftp and nfs. But those mail files
defy all my attempts.

Any help appreciated.

Bob
Steven Stern
2009-12-17 21:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
I usually have two Fedora computers as is the case now. I would like
to move the mail from the F-11 box to the new F-12 installation on a
second computer. The Thunderbirds mail import function looks for
something in "Communicator 4x" or some such thing but is very
inflexible. "Communicator 4x" doesn't exist on any of my computers!
Is there a known working procedure to accomplish this. I routinely
transfer files between them via sftp and nfs. But those mail files
defy all my attempts.
Any help appreciated.
Bob
I just move the ~/.thunderbird directory from install to install. All
the relevant files are there.
--
Steve
Mail Lists
2009-12-18 01:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Goodwin
There must be a way to save/export/import Thunderbirds email files
when going from F-11 to F-12! I have never been able to do this
despite suggestions to simply move the Thunderbirds "Mail" files.
Every six months or so I lose all the mail when I upgrade Fedora and
reinstall Thunderbirds,
WHile you can usually re-use your .thunderbird directory, one should
never save any email in thunderbird local format in my view. I use TB
coz I still thinks its the best of a bunch.

A far, far better way than using local TB storage, is to simply run a
local imap server (dovecot works really well) and use that. The major
advantages are

(i) You are now essentially indifferent to what mail client you use
- and its simple quick to change between different mail clients.

(ii) TB local storage (mbox format) was designed in the 70's ... and
it has long since been replaced by far far safer, faster and superior
formats.

mbox format is a single large file - so if you delete a message in
the middle, it doesn't actually delete it (too slow) until you
"compress" it. Using a modern format (like maildir++) never needs
compression and the risk of corruption is gone.


[MS outmook uses a similar approach - and they have similar problems
- corrupted mail files. There is a small cottage industry of repair
programs which attempt to recover mails from a corrpted outlook.pst file! ]

And remember to turn off GLODA too in tb 3 or you're in for all kinds
of gigabyte files and slow to start and run tb.

good luck!
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