Discussion:
Installing Linux on a windows hd
Roger
2014-02-12 10:34:55 UTC
Permalink
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed. I insisted at the
time that the hd have 2 partitions as I intended to install either
Fedora or Ubuntu but that was years ago and I had forgotten all about it
till today.
Macafee insists on updating but will not do so until she updates
explorer which she never uses and knows nothing about. I have no idea
about updating explorer either, never used it. I've googled but my
google produces different results to her google search so I can't tell
her to click on this or that option.

I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out as
all contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding out, me
neither, and she lives some 120 km away.

I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may overwrite
the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc useless,
particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able to reinstall
windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no longer have the
stamina for epic phone calls.

This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.

I understand how to get linux to clean install on the second partition
and I think I remember about how to use it's own boot record not the MBR
but have no idea how she would access linux with windows on the first
partition. I would prefer to make Linux the default boot option without
overwriting her MBR. I think this can be done as a bios option as I do
on my desktop pc.
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Can someone direct me on the best approach for this as I would have to
set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a basic install
before the file system updates, which can also take hours.

Help is most gratefully appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Roger
Frank Murphy
2014-02-12 10:55:08 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:34:55 +1100
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
XP will be EOL on April 8th 2014
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/endofsupport.aspx

Tell her not to use it when connected to internet.
She will get fubared as her McAffee will also not be updated.

Just be honest tell her she (may) need to possibly get new kit to works
with Win7
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-IE/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor

After that immaterial what Linux you use.


___
Regards
Frank
frankly3d.com
Tim
2014-02-12 14:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon. It's not safe to
use XP on the net after then. It was never particularly safe when XP
was being supported, anyway...

Seen it fubared within seconds of going on-line, even saw it pop up a
warning about being fubarred, but did nothing to prevent it, nor would
anything succeed in unfubarring it. Needed a reinstall. How I laughed
when I watched my friend go through that three times in a row, on one
night.

It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported. It software that
can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned Windows
XP over time. Though it's probably quite likely that some anti-virus
vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for an out-of-date
XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP. That's been the
trend with even older versions of Windows. Some do recognise that users
are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever reason (e.g. workplace
computers might be un-upgradable).

If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time. Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site. Use
other, safer, browsers for the www.

But it's not new, now, is it? So the Dell *requirement* of having XP
isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going to have
to change when XP is killed. If they must use Windows, find out the
latest version that can be installed on the hardware, then install it.
Though you may have something so old that it can't support newer
releases.
Post by Roger
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out
as all contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding
out, me neither, and she lives some 120 km away.
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough, you
can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself, rather
than play the telephone support game. Alternatively, have the thing
posted to you, sort it out, then send it back.

There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed, at
least. You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other things
its out-of-date with.

But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago. I tell them
that I don't use it anymore, I'm not up to date with its foibles, and
it'll take me much longer to sort it out than taking it to a computer
shop. It's saved me no end of grief.
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless, particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able
to reinstall windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no
longer have the stamina for epic phone calls.
I know that feeling. I had one friend who would have something go wrong
with his computer, then get stupidly drunk before phoning me for help.
It was hard enough, normally, but that made it extremely painful.

The last few times that I've installed Linux (including recent/current
Fedora) on a machine with Windows already on it, it has sorted itself
out, and the boot menu lets you pick whether to boot Linux or Windows.
Depending on which distro was installed, Windows may actually appear as
Windows in the menu, or simply be referred to as "Other." And Linux is
usually the default boot option.

Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.

It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your own
end, to familiarise yourself with it. It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with. Make it two different Linux installations.
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Could be... Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a
basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously installed
(and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates that will be
needed), should take that long to run.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
g
2014-02-12 23:16:16 UTC
Permalink
greetings roger and tim.
Post by Tim
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon. It's not safe
to use XP on the net after then. It was never particularly safe
when XP was being supported, anyway...
basically, i would agree and main variation has to do with what oos
has for anti virus/malware and internet security.

i get a lot of flack when i talk about symantec/norton, but i have
found that norton internet security software can be set up as tight
as a linux firewall.

*all* oos progs can be blocked from accessing internet, including the
notorious 'messenger'. only time to enable anything is when there is
a new service pack, forget name of prog, and when it does "it's thing",
block it again.

most hackers that get into an oos, do so because of the progs that are
set to monitor incoming traffic. if _all_ oos progs are blocked, there
is relative nothing that can happen, because...

norton internet security can also be set up to only respond to traffic
that has been originated from oos.

so, therefore, i recommend and install symantec/norton. of all the oos
systems that i have installed symantec/norton, all are still running
and connecting to internet. none have been broken into.

along with symantec/norton, i install mozilla firefox and thunderbird.

my most recent oos setup with symantec/norton and mozilla, is with an
hp that had xp installed. it is running as a dual boot with _centos_
as 'default' and _oos_ as second choice. and, yes, i changed label
from 'other' to 'oos'. ;-)

<>
Post by Tim
It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported. It software
that can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned
Windows XP over time. Though it's probably quite likely that some
anti-virus vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for
an out-of-date XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP.
That's been the trend with even older versions of Windows. Some
do recognise that users are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever
reason (e.g. workplace computers might be un-upgradable).
i agree 100% on that from experience with symantec/norton and some
w98 boxes. one of which is still running w95 because there is a
special program on it that is needed and authors have gone out of
business. they still connect to internet, are on a local network
that has boxes with w2k and w7 and everything is fine.
Post by Tim
If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time. Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site.
Use other, safer, browsers for the www.
+1.

mozilla firefox and thunderbird.
Post by Tim
But it's not new, now, is it? So the Dell *requirement* of having
XP isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going
to have to change when XP is killed. If they must use Windows,
find out the latest version that can be installed on the hardware,
then install it. Though you may have something so old that it can't
support newer releases.
about 15 or so years ago, i installed w98b on a laptop that was no
longer supported by oem. problem with install of w98 was that w98b did
not have drivers for some of the 'custom' hardware. solution was to
pull drivers from w98-1 cd and manually install them. worked great.

<<>>
Post by Tim
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough,
you can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself,
+1
Post by Tim
There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed,
at least. You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other
things its out-of-date with.
"about this computer" _should_ show info. if updating is needed, be
sure that system has a good internet security program running and
is updated.

in fact, updating of security program should be done before any attempt
to run sp updates. cyoa.
Post by Tim
But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago.
i also, except for those willing to dual boot with linux until they
can ween themselves from oos. and then it is with agreement that oos
is used for games only and it does not connect to internet. :-)
Post by Tim
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems
on the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless,
<<>>

such will not happen. that is unless system is already hacked and there
is something on it that check new progs and boot sector.

<>
Post by Tim
Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.
this is most true.
Post by Tim
It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your
own end, to familiarise yourself with it. It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with. Make it two different Linux installations.
if keeping oos and making a dual boot, be sure to run a defrag prog
that will move oos 'locked' files down into defraged area.

such can be done with norton defrag, and 'locked' files can be checked
for name. when found, copy file/s to "lockedfn.tmp", then delete
original locked files. rename "lockedfn.tmp" to "lockedfn" and you
are ready to repartition drive.

[i know, you _requested_ dual partitions,
but do you know that such was done?]
Post by Tim
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
abandon and install linux if games are not to still be played, and if
so, _do_not_ put it back on internet.
Post by Tim
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she
doesn't have to update the OS.
Could be... Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
i vote centos/redhat as it does have a good support group. [tho i have
listed a couple of good problems and not gotten replies]
Post by Tim
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through
a basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously
installed (and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates
that will be needed), should take that long to run.
agreed. centos with a default install is very easy to talk someone thru.

once installed, remote console can be setup and "good to go" thereafter.


roger, if you have any concern or feelings for girl that you are
wanting, consider this, she may be a "just a friend" now, but if
you do show her consideration in helping her, you never know. ;-)
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Roger
2014-02-13 02:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by g
Post by Tim
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously
installed (and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates
that will be needed), should take that long to run.
agreed. centos with a default install is very easy to talk someone thru.
once installed, remote console can be setup and "good to go" thereafter.
Many thanks to all who responded to this dilemma. I really don't want to
touch it but it's someone I have known for 30 years, we worked together
though remotely, producing a quarterly newsletter for 10 years.
Trust me, she is so slow and requires confirmation at each small step,
having to explain each step takes time.
Fortunately I am adept at ubuntu and Fedora installs so apart from the
above it should be painless.
My main concern is how to save her emails, photos and poetry to a usb
drive. Linux to linux is easy.
I'll look at centOS

With Grub, I have ubuntu13.04 on first partition and Fedora 19 on the
second partition, Ubuntu Grub allows me to select between those as well
as another fedora on a separate hard drive so I guess it will find the
windows partition. The windows mbr is what has me troubled so a fresh
linux install will be the best option.
Thanks again
Roger
g
2014-02-13 05:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by g
Post by Tim
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that
long. Only an update-install, which is based on what was
previously installed (and has to churn through assessing it and
all the updates that will be needed), should take that long to
run.
agreed. centos with a default install is very easy to talk someone thru.
once installed, remote console can be setup and "good to go"
thereafter.
Many thanks to all who responded to this dilemma. I really don't
want to touch it but it's someone I have known for 30 years, we
worked together though remotely, producing a quarterly newsletter
for 10 years. Trust me, she is so slow and requires confirmation
at each small step, having to explain each step takes time.
(bwg) sounds like some of my mom's friends, so i can very well
understand what you are saying. some folks just like to be
cautious.
Post by Roger
Fortunately I am adept at ubuntu and Fedora installs so apart from
the above it should be painless.
My main concern is how to save her emails, photos and poetry to a
usb drive. Linux to linux is easy.
if you can wait on wiping oos, simply by mounting the oos partition,
you should well be able to copy over all that you are wanting to
save for her.

thunderbird can import most any emails that would be on an oos box.

as for photos, .gif, .jpg, .png, are same in any os. an easy way to
find them that i have used many time is to;

]$ su -c updatedb

with oos mounted. after update;

]$ locate .gif|grep /path/to/oos> gif.001
]$ locate .jpg|grep /path/to/oos> jpg.001
]$ locate .png|grep /path/to/oos> png.001

and you have 3 listings of graphic files. granted, you will have
files from various progs, but that can be minimized by noting
file locations and run a 'grep' on pic files to get only what you
want.

same would apply for poetry.

running grep against her user path will give you what you want.
Post by Roger
I'll look at centOS
it is only an older version of fedora that became redhat. ;-)
Post by Roger
With Grub, I have ubuntu13.04 on first partition and Fedora 19 on
the second partition, Ubuntu Grub allows me to select between those
as well as another fedora on a separate hard drive so I guess it
will find the windows partition. The windows mbr is what has me
troubled so a fresh linux install will be the best option.
if you have ubuntu and fedora already installed, you have no need
to worry about mbr.
Post by Roger
Thanks again
welcome again.
Post by Roger
Roger
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Tim
2014-02-13 13:16:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
With Grub, I have ubuntu13.04 on first partition and Fedora 19 on the
second partition, Ubuntu Grub allows me to select between those as
well as another fedora on a separate hard drive so I guess it will
find the windows partition.
An already-installed GRUB will just have what it currently does. It's
during the installation phase of an OS, when it's creating the GRUB
configuration, that the set-up programming goes looking for operating
systems to put on the list.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
Tim
2014-02-13 13:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
My main concern is how to save her emails, photos and poetry to a usb
drive.
If you don't want to go to all the trouble of trying to selectively back
up just what's needed, then plug in external disc (hard drive, flash
drive), copy entire home directory to it. Simple backup...

It gets harder if they've saved data all over the place, rather than
just in their own space. XP was still dealing with people running as
admin, to cope with programs which stored things in the programs
directory.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
L.G.
2014-02-13 13:31:20 UTC
Permalink
How do I change the list?
Post by Roger
My main concern is how to save her emails, photos and poetry to a usb
drive.
If you don't want to go to all the trouble of trying to selectively back
up just what's needed, then plug in external disc (hard drive, flash
drive), copy entire home directory to it.  Simple backup...

It gets harder if they've saved data all over the place, rather than
just in their own space.  XP was still dealing with people running as
admin, to cope with programs which stored things in the programs
directory.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
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Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Tim
2014-02-13 13:11:09 UTC
Permalink
oos
I don't know what that means, but "Occupational Overuse Syndrome" of
acronyms seems appropriate. ;-)
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
g
2014-02-13 16:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim
oos
I don't know what that means, but "Occupational Overuse Syndrome" of
acronyms seems appropriate. ;-)
"other operating system", but your definition to acronym
surely does work, also, for "ms bs os".
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Doug
2014-02-13 18:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by g
Post by Tim
oos
I don't know what that means, but "Occupational Overuse Syndrome" of
acronyms seems appropriate. ;-)
"other operating system", but your definition to acronym
surely does work, also, for "ms bs os".
I think I sound "_obsolete_ operating system" somewhere.

--doug
g
2014-02-13 22:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
Post by g
Post by Tim
oos
I don't know what that means, but "Occupational Overuse Syndrome" of
acronyms seems appropriate. ;-)
"other operating system", but your definition to acronym
surely does work, also, for "ms bs os".
I think I sound "_obsolete_ operating system" somewhere.
lshif.

yes, that works also.
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
2014-02-12 16:37:26 UTC
Permalink
I would just tell her to backup all her data that she wants saved to an external device.....then do a clean install of Ubuntu...and then she can transfer her data back. ....ditch WinXP altogether.....makes for an easier time when its time to support it remotely.....

----- Reply message -----
From: "Tim" <ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au>
To: <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 9:40 am
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon. It's not safe to
use XP on the net after then. It was never particularly safe when XP
was being supported, anyway...

Seen it fubared within seconds of going on-line, even saw it pop up a
warning about being fubarred, but did nothing to prevent it, nor would
anything succeed in unfubarring it. Needed a reinstall. How I laughed
when I watched my friend go through that three times in a row, on one
night.

It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported. It software that
can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned Windows
XP over time. Though it's probably quite likely that some anti-virus
vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for an out-of-date
XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP. That's been the
trend with even older versions of Windows. Some do recognise that users
are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever reason (e.g. workplace
computers might be un-upgradable).

If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time. Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site. Use
other, safer, browsers for the www.

But it's not new, now, is it? So the Dell *requirement* of having XP
isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going to have
to change when XP is killed. If they must use Windows, find out the
latest version that can be installed on the hardware, then install it.
Though you may have something so old that it can't support newer
releases.
Post by Roger
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out
as all contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding
out, me neither, and she lives some 120 km away.
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough, you
can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself, rather
than play the telephone support game. Alternatively, have the thing
posted to you, sort it out, then send it back.

There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed, at
least. You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other things
its out-of-date with.

But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago. I tell them
that I don't use it anymore, I'm not up to date with its foibles, and
it'll take me much longer to sort it out than taking it to a computer
shop. It's saved me no end of grief.
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless, particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able
to reinstall windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no
longer have the stamina for epic phone calls.
I know that feeling. I had one friend who would have something go wrong
with his computer, then get stupidly drunk before phoning me for help.
It was hard enough, normally, but that made it extremely painful.

The last few times that I've installed Linux (including recent/current
Fedora) on a machine with Windows already on it, it has sorted itself
out, and the boot menu lets you pick whether to boot Linux or Windows.
Depending on which distro was installed, Windows may actually appear as
Windows in the menu, or simply be referred to as "Other." And Linux is
usually the default boot option.

Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.

It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your own
end, to familiarise yourself with it. It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with. Make it two different Linux installations.
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Could be... Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a
basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously installed
(and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates that will be
needed), should take that long to run.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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Pete Travis
2014-02-12 17:41:30 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 12, 2014 9:37 AM, "eoconnor25 at gmail.com" <eoconnor25 at gmail.com>
Post by eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
I would just tell her to backup all her data that she wants saved to an
external device.....then do a clean install of Ubuntu...and then she can
transfer her data back. ....ditch WinXP altogether.....makes for an easier
time when its time to support it remotely.....
Hi, do you realize this is a Fedora list?
Post by eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
----- Reply message -----
From: "Tim" <ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au>
To: <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 9:40 am
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon. It's not safe to
use XP on the net after then. It was never particularly safe when XP
was being supported, anyway...
Seen it fubared within seconds of going on-line, even saw it pop up a
warning about being fubarred, but did nothing to prevent it, nor would
anything succeed in unfubarring it. Needed a reinstall. How I laughed
when I watched my friend go through that three times in a row, on one
night.
It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported. It software that
can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned Windows
XP over time. Though it's probably quite likely that some anti-virus
vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for an out-of-date
XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP. That's been the
trend with even older versions of Windows. Some do recognise that users
are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever reason (e.g. workplace
computers might be un-upgradable).
If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time. Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site. Use
other, safer, browsers for the www.
But it's not new, now, is it? So the Dell *requirement* of having XP
isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going to have
to change when XP is killed. If they must use Windows, find out the
latest version that can be installed on the hardware, then install it.
Though you may have something so old that it can't support newer
releases.
Post by Roger
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out
as all contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding
out, me neither, and she lives some 120 km away.
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough, you
can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself, rather
than play the telephone support game. Alternatively, have the thing
posted to you, sort it out, then send it back.
There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed, at
least. You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other things
its out-of-date with.
But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago. I tell them
that I don't use it anymore, I'm not up to date with its foibles, and
it'll take me much longer to sort it out than taking it to a computer
shop. It's saved me no end of grief.
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless, particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able
to reinstall windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no
longer have the stamina for epic phone calls.
I know that feeling. I had one friend who would have something go wrong
with his computer, then get stupidly drunk before phoning me for help.
It was hard enough, normally, but that made it extremely painful.
The last few times that I've installed Linux (including recent/current
Fedora) on a machine with Windows already on it, it has sorted itself
out, and the boot menu lets you pick whether to boot Linux or Windows.
Depending on which distro was installed, Windows may actually appear as
Windows in the menu, or simply be referred to as "Other." And Linux is
usually the default boot option.
Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.
It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your own
end, to familiarise yourself with it. It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with. Make it two different Linux installations.
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Could be... Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a
basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously installed
(and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates that will be
needed), should take that long to run.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
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Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Roger, if you decide to dual boot in any way, abandon the idea of the
"second partition". Partitions are used to segregate, yes, but it is the
installer's job to create the partitioning scheme. You can help it
partition if you know how, but either way you should start with
unallocated, unpartitioned space.

--Pete
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Tim
2014-02-13 13:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete Travis
Hi, do you realize this is a Fedora list?
I'm pretty sure we all do. And you may have noticed that we've been
sinking the boot into Windows...
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
Powell, Michael
2014-02-12 18:14:47 UTC
Permalink
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop which when
new, Dell required it have xp installed. I insisted at the time that the hd have
2 partitions as I intended to install either Fedora or Ubuntu but that was
years ago and I had forgotten all about it till today.
Why did you insist that a computer illiterate person dual boot? One OS is enough to deal with, why would you trouble her with two?
Macafee insists on updating but will not do so until she updates explorer
which she never uses and knows nothing about. I have no idea about
updating explorer either, never used it. I've googled but my google produces
different results to her google search so I can't tell her to click on this or that
option.
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out as all
contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding out, me neither,
and she lives some 120 km away.
McAfee likely needs a certain service pack or system update to continue. I would recommend that you instruct her to press the following keyboard shortcut at the Windows desktop: windows + Pause. If she has trouble finding the windows key / pause key, ask her to right-click 'My Computer' and select 'Properties'. This will open the System Properties dialog and it should say what version of Windows XP she has along with any service packs.

Windows XP SP3 (large download): http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=24

Once Service Pack 3 has been verified or has been installed, instruct her to further update Windows XP to the latest via Windows Update (Start menu->Windows update). If Windows Update has trouble starting, it may indicate that Internet Explorer needs to be updated first.

Internet Explorer 8 (large download): http://www.microsoft.com/en-in/download/internet-explorer-8-details.aspx

Continue updating Windows XP via Windows Update until everything has been installed, and once done, try updating McAfee again.
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on the
second partition but am worried that on installing it may overwrite the
windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc useless, particularly
Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able to reinstall windows without
me spending a day on the phone. I no longer have the stamina for epic
phone calls.
To dual boot Windows and Linux, the recommended method is to always install Windows then Linux. The good news is that Windows XP is already installed. The bad news is that Windows XP is likely using the entire partition, and you'll have to step her through reducing the primary partition in order to create a secondary partition before installing Linux.

Are you sure this is what's best for her?
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have talked
her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to tackle this
one.
I understand how to get linux to clean install on the second partition and I
think I remember about how to use it's own boot record not the MBR but
have no idea how she would access linux with windows on the first partition.
I would prefer to make Linux the default boot option without overwriting her
MBR. I think this can be done as a bios option as I do on my desktop pc.
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't have to
update the OS.
Can someone direct me on the best approach for this as I would have to set
aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a basic install before the
file system updates, which can also take hours.
Help is most gratefully appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Roger
Whether provoked or not, the computer literate tend to push their methods onto the computer illiterate. The issue with doing so is that the computer illiterate are then forced into dependency. There's potentially nothing wrong with this if there's a business involved, but for the occasional friendly PC repair over the phone, it's best to do what is right for the computer illiterate.

For that reason alone, I recommend that you stop pushing Linux and do either of the following:

1. Spend some time investigating PC repair places in her area over the phone. Try to develop a rapport with a computer technician that you can then direct your friend to so that she will receive friendly, in-person, service instead of just being another customer. You can pay her bill or even tip the computer technician so that he goes above and beyond.

2. Buy her Windows 7 and spend your time helping to back-up her data and installing (format) Windows 7.

3. Buy her a new machine with a newer version of Windows and help transfer her data.
Chris Murphy
2014-02-12 18:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Powell, Michael
Why did you insist that a computer illiterate person dual boot? One OS is enough to deal with, why would you trouble her with two?
I agree.
Post by Powell, Michael
Continue updating Windows XP via Windows Update until everything has been installed, and once done, try updating McAfee again.
I also agree that the first, and least path of resistance, is to get XP safer by ensuring it's updated. And this buys some time for actual budgeting and migration planning, until April anyway. No plan should include XP after even Microsoft has washed their hands of it.

The dual boot plan is risky. But I might be convinced it's workable if the existing XP setup is properly backed up, then fully updated; and the Linux install is to test the waters, familiarization and training. If it's the right direction, by April the plan needs to be the obliteration of XP. And that means obliterating and reinstalling whatever Linux is present and restoring user data.

So
 that's a lot to chew off. She's almost certainly better off with a Windows 7 upgrade and leaving well enough alone unless she initiates a preference to move away from that experience.


Chris Murphy
Chris Murphy
2014-02-12 18:21:14 UTC
Permalink
I understand how to get linux to clean install on the second partition and I think I remember about how to use it's own boot record not the MBR but have no idea how she would access linux with windows on the first partition.
If she installs Fedora, and likely also Ubuntu, at boot time there's a grub menu presented and it will have one or more Linux options and one Windows option.
I would prefer to make Linux the default boot option without overwriting her MBR.
Not possible.
I think this can be done as a bios option as I do on my desktop pc.
Your BIOS lets you choose partitions to boot from? That's not a given. Most BIOS don't recognize partitions, they only let you choose between drives.
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't have to update the OS.
Well I'd refuse that premise from the outset. For one, we don't know her workflow or budget or her interest in becoming significantly more computer literate than she is now.

I'd say complete migration away from Windows XP is mandatory. Migrating to Windows 7 alone is a superior option to dual booting Linux and XP. Enabling her to keep XP is simply bad advice so don't do that. The only way it's going to be semi-safe to use XP in several months is when disconnected from the internet.

Other options include migrating to a tablet if her needs are fairly sparse and infrequent, to maybe a Chromebook if there a bit more sophisticated like needing to write basic documents or is a moderate to prolific emailer. If the workflow requires more capable applications then I'd say she needs a user group or someone to be her IT staff - that comes first, and whoever does that determines what the OS is not the other way around.


Chris Murphy
eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
2014-02-12 21:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Yes....I'm sorry but the original poster mentioned Ubuntu....personally....I would install Fedora....but I'm just giving feedback.....sorry!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Pete Travis" <lists at petetravis.com>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 12:41 pm
I would just tell her to backup all her data that she wants saved to an external device.....then do a clean install of Ubuntu...and then she can transfer her data back.  ....ditch WinXP altogether.....makes for an easier time when its time to support it remotely.....
Hi, do you realize this is a Fedora list?
----- Reply message -----
From: "Tim" <ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au>
To: <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 9:40 am
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon.  It's not safe to
use XP on the net after then.  It was never particularly safe when XP
was being supported, anyway...  
Seen it fubared within seconds of going on-line, even saw it pop up a
warning about being fubarred, but did nothing to prevent it, nor would
anything succeed in unfubarring it.  Needed a reinstall.  How I laughed
when I watched my friend go through that three times in a row, on one
night.
It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported.  It software that
can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned Windows
XP over time.  Though it's probably quite likely that some anti-virus
vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for an out-of-date
XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP.  That's been the
trend with even older versions of Windows.  Some do recognise that users
are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever reason (e.g. workplace
computers might be un-upgradable).
If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time.  Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site.  Use
other, safer, browsers for the www.
But it's not new, now, is it?  So the Dell *requirement* of having XP
isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going to have
to change when XP is killed.  If they must use Windows, find out the
latest version that can be installed on the hardware, then install it.
Though you may have something so old that it can't support newer
releases.
Post by Roger
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out
as all contact is by phone, she doesn't  have a clue about finding
out, me neither, and she lives some 120 km away.
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough, you
can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself, rather
than play the telephone support game.  Alternatively, have the thing
posted to you, sort it out, then send it back.
There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed, at
least.  You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other things
its out-of-date with.
But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago.  I tell them
that I don't use it anymore, I'm not up to date with its foibles, and
it'll take me much longer to sort it out than taking it to a computer
shop.  It's saved me no end of grief.
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless, particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able
to reinstall windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no
longer have the stamina for epic phone calls.
I know that feeling.  I had one friend who would have something go wrong
with his computer, then get stupidly drunk before phoning me for help.
It was hard enough, normally, but that made it extremely painful.
The last few times that I've installed Linux (including recent/current
Fedora) on a machine with Windows already on it, it has sorted itself
out, and the boot menu lets you pick whether to boot Linux or Windows.
Depending on which distro was installed, Windows may actually appear as
Windows in the menu, or simply be referred to as "Other."  And Linux is
usually the default boot option.
Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.
It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your own
end, to familiarise yourself with it.  It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with.  Make it two different Linux installations.
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Could be...  Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a
basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain.  But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously installed
(and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates that will be
needed), should take that long to run.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Roger, if you decide to dual boot in any way, abandon the idea of the "second partition".  Partitions are used to segregate, yes, but it is the installer's job to create the partitioning scheme.  You can help it partition if you know how, but either way you should start with unallocated, unpartitioned space.

--Pete
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William Mckee
2014-02-12 21:16:22 UTC
Permalink
By chance does she live somewhere with a local linux users group or
computer club?
Where I live there is a local community center where people can bring their
computer once a month and have their problems sorted.
Maybe have a hunt around and see if there is something similar?
Goodluck,
William
Post by eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
Yes....I'm sorry but the original poster mentioned
Ubuntu....personally....I would install Fedora....but I'm just giving
feedback.....sorry!
----- Reply message -----
From: "Pete Travis" <lists at petetravis.com>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 12:41 pm
Post by eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
I would just tell her to backup all her data that she wants saved to an
external device.....then do a clean install of Ubuntu...and then she can
transfer her data back. ....ditch WinXP altogether.....makes for an easier
time when its time to support it remotely.....
Hi, do you realize this is a Fedora list?
Post by eoconnor25 at gmail.com ()
----- Reply message -----
From: "Tim" <ignored_mailbox at yahoo.com.au>
To: <users at lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Installing Linux on a windows hd
Date: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 9:40 am
Post by Roger
A friend who is not computer literate at all has a Dell 1520 laptop
which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As has already been said, XP support dies very soon. It's not safe to
use XP on the net after then. It was never particularly safe when XP
was being supported, anyway...
Seen it fubared within seconds of going on-line, even saw it pop up a
warning about being fubarred, but did nothing to prevent it, nor would
anything succeed in unfubarring it. Needed a reinstall. How I laughed
when I watched my friend go through that three times in a row, on one
night.
It's not just XP, itself, that becomes unsupported. It software that
can be run on XP, as *those* other coders abandon the abandoned Windows
XP over time. Though it's probably quite likely that some anti-virus
vendors will continue to produce anti-virus software for an out-of-date
XP for some time, long after Microsoft abandons XP. That's been the
trend with even older versions of Windows. Some do recognise that users
are stuck with using old OSs, for whatever reason (e.g. workplace
computers might be un-upgradable).
If they are going to continue using XP, go through all the Windows
updates, now, let it update all the bug fixes that can be done, and
that'll take care of internet explorer, at the same time. Then stop
using internet explorer, except for browsing the Microsoft site. Use
other, safer, browsers for the www.
But it's not new, now, is it? So the Dell *requirement* of having XP
isn't really so concrete, and that requirement is surely going to have
to change when XP is killed. If they must use Windows, find out the
latest version that can be installed on the hardware, then install it.
Though you may have something so old that it can't support newer
releases.
Post by Roger
I do not know if her xp is sp1, 2 or 3 and have no way of finding out
as all contact is by phone, she doesn't have a clue about finding
out, me neither, and she lives some 120 km away.
If you feel so inclined, and both of your internet is fast enough, you
can take remote control of her PC, and fix it for her yourself, rather
than play the telephone support game. Alternatively, have the thing
posted to you, sort it out, then send it back.
There are tools that give you summaries of the installation, and the
"about this computer" option can reveal the service pack installed, at
least. You'd need to try Windows update to see how many other things
its out-of-date with.
But I abandoned helping friends with Windows, long ago. I tell them
that I don't use it anymore, I'm not up to date with its foibles, and
it'll take me much longer to sort it out than taking it to a computer
shop. It's saved me no end of grief.
Post by Roger
I would like to run her through installing one of the Linux systems on
the second partition but am worried that on installing it may
overwrite the windows MBR making her windows files, folders, etc
useless, particularly Thunderbird and Firefox. She would not be able
to reinstall windows without me spending a day on the phone. I no
longer have the stamina for epic phone calls.
I know that feeling. I had one friend who would have something go wrong
with his computer, then get stupidly drunk before phoning me for help.
It was hard enough, normally, but that made it extremely painful.
The last few times that I've installed Linux (including recent/current
Fedora) on a machine with Windows already on it, it has sorted itself
out, and the boot menu lets you pick whether to boot Linux or Windows.
Depending on which distro was installed, Windows may actually appear as
Windows in the menu, or simply be referred to as "Other." And Linux is
usually the default boot option.
Yes, it takes over the MBR, but the grub bootloader takes care of
booting up Linux or Windows, so that doesn't really matter.
It might be worth you trying out doing a multi-boot install at your own
end, to familiarise yourself with it. It doesn't have to be a
Linux/Windows dual-boot, if you don't have a Windows install to play
with. Make it two different Linux installations.
Post by Roger
This person has no confidence with computers. Over the years I have
talked her through windows problems but now I am lost as to how to
tackle this one.
Explain carefully and strongly that XP will not be supported within
about a month, that they really need to abandon it.
Post by Roger
I think the best linux option would be ubuntu 12.04LTS so she doesn't
have to update the OS.
Could be... Or CentOS, if you're more familiar with solving problems
similar to Fedora, than dealing with Ubuntu issues.
Post by Roger
I would have to set aside 3-4 hours on the phone to walk her through a
basic install before the file system updates, which can also take
hours.
I know your pain. But a clean Linux install shouldn't take that long.
Only an update-install, which is based on what was previously installed
(and has to churn through assessing it and all the updates that will be
needed), should take that long to run.
--
[tim at localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Roger, if you decide to dual boot in any way, abandon the idea of the
"second partition". Partitions are used to segregate, yes, but it is the
installer's job to create the partitioning scheme. You can help it
partition if you know how, but either way you should start with
unallocated, unpartitioned space.
--Pete
--
users mailing list
users at lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
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Edward M
2014-02-12 22:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Dell 1520 laptop which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As many have said windows xp eol is taking place in two months,
and the laptop probably may require more ram to be added
so it can be upgraded to either windows 7 or windows 8.1(if
compatible).
I think removing xp completely and installing a linux distro is
a safer choice

Here is a nice read: Microsoft's Tim Rains explaining in his
blog the risks of running windows xp with no support.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/security/archive/2013/08/15/the-risk-of-running-windows-xp-after-support-ends.aspx
g
2014-02-13 00:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Dell 1520 laptop which when new, Dell required it have xp installed.
As many have said windows xp eol is taking place in two months, and
the laptop probably may require more ram to be added so it can be
upgraded to either windows 7 or windows 8.1(if compatible).
I think removing xp completely and installing a linux distro is
a safer choice
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading. and no, i would not expect an oos advocate
suggest installing linux. ;-)
Here is a nice read: Microsoft's Tim Rains explaining in his
blog the risks of running windows xp with no support.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/security/archive/2013/08/15/<>
some very strong points are made in blog as to how weak oos really
is and will continue to be.

but, he talks only about xp software, nothing is mentioned about
what would happen if a user only uses 3rd party, such as mozilla,
and if user blocks all incoming traffic that is not originated.

granted, 'mim' is always a possibility, then again, linux is just
about only system that is safe from such, tho not completely.

for sure, xp is on its way out, as should have been done long before
now. but there are some who may be locked in to it because of 3rd
party software
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Edward Mart
2014-02-13 07:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update or windows itself
to continue working properly;-)
--
"Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today."
Malcolm X
Frank Murphy
2014-02-13 07:45:04 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:29 -0800
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update
That's the point, most XP stuff will not be updated, incl games.

or windows
Post by Edward Mart
itself to continue working properly;-)
It will continue to work, if you look after it.


___
Regards
Frank
frankly3d.com
Edward Mart
2014-02-13 08:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Murphy
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:29 -0800
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update
That's the point, most XP stuff will not be updated, incl games.
or windows
Post by Edward Mart
itself to continue working properly;-)
It will continue to work, if you look after it.
___
Regards
Frank
frankly3d.com
now i understand why a store was using win98 as a jukebox playing
mp3s.
offline

Regards
--
"Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today."
Malcolm X
g
2014-02-13 10:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Murphy
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:29 -0800
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update
That's the point, most XP stuff will not be updated, incl games.
or windows
Post by Edward Mart
itself to continue working properly;-)
It will continue to work, if you look after it.
and make a full backup for when it throws up it's famous blue screen.
((GBWG))

one thing i learned about oos years ago;

a- 1- make initial install. 2- tweak. 3- make a full backup.
then when it crashes, you do not have to repeat 1 & 2.

b- when packages or 3rd party are install, make an incremental backup.

c- when an sp is released, and installed, make incremental backup.

i learned "my abc's" from running unix, before there ever was oos. :-)

this is last of taking up my time making comments about a
_software_company_ that needs to go 'eol'.
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Frank Murphy
2014-02-13 10:39:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:37:58 +0000
Post by g
this is last of taking up my time making comments about a
_software_company_ that needs to go 'eol'.
Fedora also goes EOL :)

___
Regards
Frank
frankly3d.com
g
2014-02-13 11:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Murphy
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:37:58 +0000
Post by g
this is last of taking up my time making comments about a
_software_company_ that needs to go 'eol'.
Fedora also goes EOL :)
only by virgin. ;-)
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Doug
2014-02-13 18:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by g
Post by Frank Murphy
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:29 -0800
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update
That's the point, most XP stuff will not be updated, incl games.
or windows
Post by Edward Mart
itself to continue working properly;-)
It will continue to work, if you look after it.
and make a full backup for when it throws up it's famous blue screen.
(
I have no complaint about backups, and I admit that the only game
I play in Windows is Microsoft Pinball, but I have _never_ seen a BSOD
in XP. All the time in 95 and 98, but for me, XP cured that problem.
It really is too bad they'r e phasing out support for XP. My laptop
just can't hack Win 7. It's so slow it's pitiful!

--doug
g
2014-02-13 23:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug
Post by g
Post by Frank Murphy
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:29 -0800
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update
That's the point, most XP stuff will not be updated, incl games.
or windows
Post by Edward Mart
itself to continue working properly;-)
It will continue to work, if you look after it.
and make a full backup for when it throws up it's famous blue screen.
I have no complaint about backups, and I admit that the only game
I play in Windows is Microsoft Pinball, but I have _never_ seen a BSOD
in XP. All the time in 95 and 98, but for me, XP cured that problem.
It really is too bad they'r e phasing out support for XP. My laptop
just can't hack Win 7. It's so slow it's pitiful!
the only oos game i ever played was the 'flight sim'.

the 2 planes i flew where the 'sopwith camel' and the 'lear jet'.

flying the lear was not 'true flight'. an actual lear jet flight
is a "peak point" coarse. from take of, your flight is an ascent to
a peak half way between points and then a steady decent to landing.

flying the lear jet thru the obstacle coarse would not be possible
for a real lear jet. was not all that easy in the 'flight sim' either.

the later 'purchase' version of 'flight sim' was a lot better and
more planes.

other 2 games i bought and played where 'falcon 3.0', an f16
fighting falcon simulator, and a helicopter simulator. [do not
recall name, and it is packed away somewhere.]

i played 'falcon 3.0' mostly because i finished 'flight school',
but never got thru 'flight school' with the helicopter. :-(
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
g
2014-02-13 10:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update or windows itself
to continue working properly;-)
if xp is going eol, why would 'what ever' of xp games not go eol?
so a game hits eol, is it going to break or quit just because the
os is never update again? i think not.

how would "windows itself", presuming you mean xp, not continue to
work?

if it is working, it is not going to stop working. if you mean
something crashing and trashing the install, so the cookie crumbles.
reinstall and not worry about updates. how many games crash from lack
of updates? :-)
--
peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

tc.hago.

g
.
Edward M
2014-02-14 00:06:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by g
Post by Edward Mart
Post by g
it is a good suggestion, but installing linux and keeping xp for
games, etc and never putting it back on internet is also a better
choice over upgrading
until one those games or apps require an update or windows itself
to continue working properly;-)
if xp is going eol, why would 'what ever' of xp games not go eol?
so a game hits eol, is it going to break or quit just because the
os is never update again? i think not.
For a STEAM user, as myself, who decides to continue running
windows xp, after it goes eol, without internet access
to continue playing games purchased from STEAM may have this problem
because the game wont get validated,etc from STEAM, without
internet access.

Again, just pure speculation on my behalf
Post by g
how would "windows itself", presuming you mean xp, not continue to
work?
I was thinking if the user decides to install a new hardware that
requires a newer driver

it was a pleasure of conversion with you and others on this
thread, however, i don't want to rude but I think it is starting to
get off topic for
a fedora list, so
this will be my last reply for this thread:-)

Best Regards

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