gnote vs Tomboy

[Aaron Konstam]

Several versions of Fedora ago the default note taking software was
switched from tomboy to gnote supposedly because gnote was a more
efficient binary program.

Now it turns out that the latest version of tomboy which can be yum
installed includes the feature to allow you to synchronize the notes on
several machines including Windows and Mac.

I tried installing tomboy but the installation left me unsure about how
to do the installation complete with the gnote notes.

Has anyone tried this and have some tips about the conversion. Am I
correct that the tomboy database was located in a file called .tomboy
in your home directory. Would copying the gnote database to .tomboy do
the trick?

[Aaron Konstam]

Post by Aaron Konstam
Several versions of Fedora ago the default note taking software was
switched from tomboy to gnote supposedly because gnote was a more
efficient binary program.
Now it turns out that the latest version of tomboy which can be yum
installed includes the feature to allow you to synchronize the notes on
several machines including Windows and Mac.
I tried installing tomboy but the installation left me unsure about how
to do the installation complete with the gnote notes.
Has anyone tried this and have some tips about the conversion. Am I
correct that the tomboy database was located in a file called .tomboy
in your home directory. Would copying the gnote database to .tomboy do
the trick?

Well I can answer at least part of my own question. Although it is not
clear why people are not interested in a note-taking program that can be
synchronized over several machines.

The tomboy database ends up in .local/share in your home directory. The
same directory that the gnote database is in. The synchronization option
indeed appears in tomboy but in a funny way. When you add tomboy to you
panel it is represented by the same icon as gnote.However, as soon as
you click on the the first icon a second icon appears. They do not have
the same functionality. Only one allows you to evoke the synchronization
function. Copying the gnote database to the tomboy directory , then
logging out and logging in evokes the note manipulating function of
tomboy.

One mystery of how to set up the tomboy synchronization server is still
unknown to me. Since I have tomboy only on one machine, so far, the
question is mute at present.

If someone knows how to do this I would appreciate hearing from them.

[Rahul Sundaram]

Post by Aaron Konstam
Well I can answer at least part of my own question. Although it is not
clear why people are not interested in a note-taking program that can be
synchronized over several machines.

Same reason why Firefox 4 betas have sync options built in. People move
between machines but want to retain the same data.

One mystery of how to set up the tomboy synchronization server is still

Post by Aaron Konstam
unknown to me. Since I have tomboy only on one machine, so far, the
question is mute at present.
If someone knows how to do this I would appreciate hearing from them.

GNOME.org wants to offer a sync server to enable users to do this. At the
moment, one option is to run snowy on your own server.

http://live.gnome.org/Snowy

Rahul
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[Aaron Konstam]

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Aaron Konstam
Well I can answer at least part of my own question. Although it is not
clear why people are not interested in a note-taking program that can be
synchronized over several machines.
Same reason why Firefox 4 betas have sync options built in. People
move between machines but want to retain the same data.

The above statement confuses me since it does not respond to the last
statement I made in my first paragraph.

One mystery of how to set up the tomboy synchronization server is still
unknown to me. Since I have tomboy only on one machine, so far, the
question is mute at present.
If someone knows how to do this I would appreciate hearing from them.
GNOME.org wants to offer a sync server to enable users to do this. At
the moment, one option is to run snowy on your own server.
http://live.gnome.org/Snowy
Rahul

This is a sync server for tomboy but Fedora seems to push gnote. If sync
is so useful why is tomboy not the default note taking application in
Fedora releases?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Post by Aaron Konstam
The above statement confuses me since it does not respond to the last
statement I made in my first paragraph.

Explain what you are confused about, more directly

Post by Aaron Konstam
This is a sync server for tomboy but Fedora seems to push gnote. If sync
is so useful why is tomboy not the default note taking application in
Fedora releases?

I didn't say a sync server was very useful. I just pointed out a single use
case that some users would find convenient. There is no reason gnote
wouldn't be able to work with snowy since there is nothing tomboy specific
about it. Some client side code would need to be written and there is
partial work done upstream already. We don't switch defaults everytime an
alternative program gets some additional features.

Rahul
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[Steven Stern]

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Aaron Konstam <akonstam at sbcglobal.net
The above statement confuses me since it does not respond to the last
statement I made in my first paragraph.
Explain what you are confused about, more directly
This is a sync server for tomboy but Fedora seems to push gnote. If sync
is so useful why is tomboy not the default note taking application in
Fedora releases?
I didn't say a sync server was very useful. I just pointed out a single
use case that some users would find convenient. There is no reason
gnote wouldn't be able to work with snowy since there is nothing tomboy
specific about it. Some client side code would need to be written and
there is partial work done upstream already. We don't switch defaults
everytime an alternative program gets some additional features.
Rahul

I'd be happy for something that synced my desktop, Mac laptop, and
iPhone -- securely.

[Phil Meyer]

Post by Aaron Konstam
Several versions of Fedora ago the default note taking software was
switched from tomboy to gnote supposedly because gnote was a more
efficient binary program.
Now it turns out that the latest version of tomboy which can be yum
installed includes the feature to allow you to synchronize the notes on
several machines including Windows and Mac.
I tried installing tomboy but the installation left me unsure about how
to do the installation complete with the gnote notes.
Has anyone tried this and have some tips about the conversion. Am I
correct that the tomboy database was located in a file called .tomboy
in your home directory. Would copying the gnote database to .tomboy do
the trick?

The reason Fedora switched from Tomboy was its dependence on mono:

Resolving Dependencies
--> Running transaction check
---> Package tomboy.x86_64 0:1.3.2-1.fc14 set to be installed
--> Processing Dependency: mono(NDesk.DBus.GLib) = 1.0.0.0 for package:
tomboy-1.3.2-1.fc14.x86_64


Mono is not 'safe' or free (as in free from patent encumbrance).

You are likely to find little sympathy for purveyors of mono based
applications these days. Even if they made you coffee!

Good Luck!

[Aaron Konstam]

Post by Phil Meyer

Post by Aaron Konstam
Several versions of Fedora ago the default note taking software was
switched from tomboy to note supposedly because note was a more
efficient binary program.
Now it turns out that the latest version of tomboy which can be yum
installed includes the feature to allow you to synchronize the notes on
several machines including Windows and Mac.
I tried installing tomboy but the installation left me unsure about how
to do the installation complete with the gnote notes.
Has anyone tried this and have some tips about the conversion. Am I
correct that the tomboy database was located in a file called .tomboy
in your home directory. Would copying the gnote database to .tomboy do
the trick?

Resolving Dependencies
--> Running transaction check
---> Package tomboy.x86_64 0:1.3.2-1.fc14 set to be installed
tomboy-1.3.2-1.fc14.x86_64
Mono is not 'safe' or free (as in free from patent encumbrance).
You are likely to find little sympathy for purveyors of mono based
applications these days. Even if they made you coffee!
Good Luck!

I have heard that argument before. The fwaact is currently tomcat is
actively being developed and gnote is not. Rahul assurews us that
sinchronation is in gnotes future and he inmplies that Snowy might work
with gnotewws . We will have to wait and see. We are actively running
three computers at our house and I believe that synchronizing the
databases on these three machines will be useful. In that I disagree
with Rahul's opinion that it is not that important.

Disclaimer: I don't really know whether or not gnote is being actively
worked on by Fedora developers but it had stayed the same for a long
time and its man page is dated 2004.

[Michael Semcheski]

Post by Aaron Konstam
I have heard that argument before. The fwaact is currently tomcat is
actively being developed and gnote is not. Rahul assurews us that
sinchronation is in gnotes future and he inmplies that Snowy might work
with gnotewws . We will have to wait and see. We are actively running
three computers at our house and I believe that synchronizing the
databases on these three machines will ?be useful. In that I disagree
with Rahul's opinion that it is not that important.

I don't see Rahul saying its not that important. But you can't demand
that someone do something (for free) because you think its more
important.

Just install tomboy. yum install tomboy. Open it up. If you can't
tell which one is tomboy and which one is gnote, tomboy is the one
that doesn't have any of your gnote information in it. Copy over your
notes by hand. Its a one time thing. Then remove gnote.

Tell Rahul thanks for the work he put into gnote. I'm glad he put the
time in to make mono optional on Fedora desktops, and obviously you've
gotten some use out of it too, even if you're going to go to tomboy.

And get the w key on your keyboard fixed.

[Aaron Konstam]

Post by Michael Semcheski

I have heard that argument before. The fact is currently tomcat is
actively being developed and gnote is not. Rahul assures us that
synchronization is in gnote's future and he implies that Snowy might work
with gnote's . We will have to wait and see. We are actively running
three computers at our house and I believe that synchronizing the
databases on these three machines will be useful. In that I disagree
with Rahul's opinion that it is not that important.

I don't see Rahul saying its not that important. But you can't demand
that someone do something (for free) because you think its more
important.

That is because he said it to me in an e-mail off-list. All of Fedora is
free is it not. As far as I know I can ask the Fedora developers to do
anything I want them to do and they can ignore the request.

Post by Michael Semcheski
Just install tomboy. yum install tomboy. Open it up. If you can't
tell which one is tomboy and which one is gnote, tomboy is the one
that doesn't have any of your gnote information in it. Copy over your
notes by hand. Its a one time thing. Then remove gnote.

I guess I have not been clear. The synchronization I am takng about is
not a one time thing. You can synchronize tomboy databases on different
machines as often as you want in tomboy. That is, you could if it worked
right, But so far it says it is synchronizing but it doesn't. And I
still think it is something worth doing.

Post by Michael Semcheski
Tell Rahul thanks for the work he put into gnote. I'm glad he put the
time in to make mono optional on Fedora desktops, and obviously you've
gotten some use out of it too, even if you're going to go to tomboy.
And get the w key on your keyboard fixed.

It is not the w key that needs fixing. It is my fingers.

[Michael Semcheski]

Post by Aaron Konstam
That is because he said it to me in an e-mail off-list. All of Fedora is
free is it not. As far as I know I can ask the Fedora developers to do
anything I want them to do and they can ignore the request.

You can ask any developer on any project to do anything you want, for
that matter :)

Post by Aaron Konstam
not a one time thing. You can synchronize tomboy databases on different
machines as often as you want in tomboy. That is, you could if it worked
right, But so far it says it is synchronizing but it doesn't. And I
still think it is something worth doing.

In that case, I would definitely follow up on the Tomboy mailing list.
My impression based on the websites for snowy and tomboy are:
1. It sounds like Tomboy sync is not fully implemented yet. Maybe in
a non-stable development version.
2. The gnome-snowy project is the backend for Tomboy's sync, and its
not stable yet.

So, give this feature some time. Synchronization always ends up being
a tougher problem to solve than it sounds like.

Mike

[Rahul Sundaram]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Michael Semcheski <mhsemcheski at gmail.com>

Post by Michael Semcheski
1. It sounds like Tomboy sync is not fully implemented yet. Maybe in
a non-stable development version.
2. The gnome-snowy project is the backend for Tomboy's sync, and its
not stable yet.
So, give this feature some time. Synchronization always ends up being
a tougher problem to solve than it sounds like

Yep. Snowy and Tomboy sync is not a stable combination yet and hence using
Gnote is really no different. In addition to that, GNOME hasn't hosted web
services directly before and this would be their first venture. It seems a
bit of a experimental thing for them at this point. I heard Tomboy sync
works well with Ubuntu One but that is a proprietary solution
unfortunately.

Rahul
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[Aaron Konstam]

Post by Rahul Sundaram
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Michael Semcheski
<mhsemcheski at gmail.com>
1. It sounds like Tomboy sync is not fully implemented yet.
Maybe in
a non-stable development version.
2. The gnome-snowy project is the backend for Tomboy's sync, and its
not stable yet.
So, give this feature some time. Synchronization always ends up being
a tougher problem to solve than it sounds like
Yep. Snowy and Tomboy sync is not a stable combination yet and hence
using Gnote is really no different. In addition to that, GNOME
hasn't hosted web services directly before and this would be their
first venture. It seems a bit of a experimental thing for them at
this point. I heard Tomboy sync works well with Ubuntu One but that
is a proprietary solution unfortunately.
Rahul

Well once again Rahul we are having difficulty communicating and I don't
know why. For a week or so I have been asking people to share with me
information on syncing in tomboy. If you or Michael had shared with me
the information above the whole discussion would not have gone on for
the length you object to.

OK, if by synchronization of the databases of two machines you mean
updating the information in the gnote (or tomboy) on the first machine
with the database information on the second machine, this is trivial to
do. I am tempted to leave the solution to the reader with the hint that
using this method would necessitate logging off and logging on again on
the second machine.

The tomboy synchronization does work but the synchronized database ends
up in a file called sync-sshfs in the .cache/tomboy of the users home
directory where it can not be accessed by tomboy. If someone knew how to
transfer this information to the proper tomboy database the system would
work. Information on this would be accepted.


Now for man pages. Here Rahul we disagree. The man page should contain a
discriprion of all the options available in the the program (GUI or
command line). Or there should be an info file with this information. It
is the documentation of the program's use. (I admit this approach is not
followed in most man pages). I have taught Software Development and
believe in the rules set down by Fred Brooks in "Mythical Man Month"
that Documentation is an integral part of the development process. No
software updated in 2011 should have documentation dated 2004.

The configuration of Tomboy under Ubuntu is described in detail
in the Tomboy wiki:
http://live.gnome.org/SeanFritz/UbuntuGutsyTomboySync

It requires software not available in Fedora. Is this the proprietary
part you are talking about Rahul?

[Rahul Sundaram]

Post by Aaron Konstam
Well once again Rahul we are having difficulty communicating and I don't
know why. For a week or so I have been asking people to share with me
information on syncing in tomboy. If you or Michael had shared with me
the information above the whole discussion would not have gone on for
the length you object to.

I don't object to it but I am not sure what exactly you are discussing
about. I don't use Tomboy and I don't keep track of it and couldn't have
given you any detailed guide on setting up sync. If you want help on using
Tomboy, the discussion about Gnote seems a side topic that should be
seperate.

Post by Aaron Konstam
Now for man pages. Here Rahul we disagree. The man page should contain a
discriprion of all the options available in the the program (GUI or
command line). Or there should be an info file with this information. It
is the documentation of the program's use

Where is the disagreement? If a GUI program gets updated all the time but
no new command line options are added, then there is no need to update the
man page and hence a man page is a very poor way of keep track of whether a
software is updated actively or not. GUI programs keep their help files
updated and that is *not* a man page. GNOME and KDE for instance use
docbook and yelp is the help application for GNOME apps. Looking at the cvs
or git tree is obviously much better way to keep track of development
changes and I have given you a link to that.

Post by Aaron Konstam
The configuration of Tomboy under Ubuntu is described in detail
http://live.gnome.org/SeanFritz/UbuntuGutsyTomboySync
It requires software not available in Fedora. Is this the proprietary
part you are talking about Rahul?

Yes, the server side software of Ubuntu One is entirely proprietary

Rahul
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[Rahul Sundaram]

Post by Aaron Konstam
I have heard that argument before. The fwaact is currently tomcat is
actively being developed and gnote is not. Rahul assurews us that
sinchronation is in gnotes future and he inmplies that Snowy might work
with gnotewws . We will have to wait and see. We are actively running
three computers at our house and I believe that synchronizing the
databases on these three machines will be useful. In that I disagree
with Rahul's opinion that it is not that important.
Disclaimer: I don't really know whether or not gnote is being actively
worked on by Fedora developers but it had stayed the same for a long
time and its man page is dated 2004.

Man page for a utility doesn't change unless more command line options are
added which is pretty rare for a graphical utility. Gnote development
hasn't stopped and gets various bug fixes and other incremental updates. If
you want to keep track of changes, refer to

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnote/log/

There are two upstream developers and one of them is a Fedora developer,
Debarishi Ray and afaik the other is not a Fedora developer. I didn't say
sync wasn't important. I said it is important for some users. If you
prefer to use Tomboy, feel free to. This discussion doesn't seem to have
much of a point.

Rahul
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