Discussion:
Free T1 Palatino fonts?
Paul Smith
2006-05-03 19:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Dear All

Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?

Thanks in advance,

Paul
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-03 19:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Dear All
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Thanks in advance,
Paul
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
Paul Smith
2006-05-03 19:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Peters
Post by Paul Smith
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.

Paul
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-04 12:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Post by Michael A. Peters
Post by Paul Smith
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
I believe they are font metric compatible. I have no clue if beyond
that, they look the same - I never use that font myself. But the font
metric is what is most important for postscript level 2 compat.
James Wilkinson
2006-05-04 12:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
Font copyright status is ... interesting. It turns out that it's a lot
easier to protect the trademark name of a font than it is to protect the
shape of the letters. So an independent font "very nearly" the same as
the original font needs a different name -- and one different enough not
to fall foul of trademark law.

http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html (the "What is really strange
about Arial" paragraph)

Intriguingly, http://www.ms-studio.com/articlesarialsia.html says:
The designer of Palatino, Herman Zapf, has been known to do off-name
versions of his own typefaces for other foundries (notably
Bitstream)...

And http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/palladio/ says
URW Palladio
Designed by: Hermann Zapf

Hope this helps,

James.
--
E-mail address: james | ... File not found, I'll load something *I* think
@westexe.demon.co.uk | is interesting.
Frank-Michael Fischer
2006-05-04 12:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson
Post by Paul Smith
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
Font copyright status is ... interesting. It turns out that it's a lot
easier to protect the trademark name of a font than it is to protect the
shape of the letters. So an independent font "very nearly" the same as
the original font needs a different name -- and one different enough not
to fall foul of trademark law.
http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html (the "What is really strange
about Arial" paragraph)
The designer of Palatino, Herman Zapf, has been known to do off-name
versions of his own typefaces for other foundries (notably
Bitstream)...
And http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/palladio/ says
URW Palladio
Designed by: Hermann Zapf
Hope this helps,
James.
The problem with these semi-professional fonts is: they are missing pair
kerning information either partially or totally. E.g. URW Palladio comes
with kerning for ASCII characters only. Which makes it unusable for
professional publications in non-ASCII languages (Polish, German,
Hungarian, Swedish, Danish, Norvegian, Czech, Slovakian etc.). The
Original Palatino from Linotype takes the multi-lingual use of this font
into consideration and contains all kerning pair information. URW does
not. "Times New Roman" from MS has got the same problem. "Georgia" comes
with no kerning at all.

Thus even when the single character shapes are identical between two
fonts one can still produce messy output. Who wants to see the
difference, should try to print "Walter Tow" in different fonts, size 12
or 14, on a decent laser printer, once with pair kerning on, once with
off. (It's a setting in OpenOffice under "Format -> Character.)

BTW the missing pair kerning feature is a major obstacle for the
spreading of koffice, since this product has no kerning feature at all,
even when the font has got the pair kerning information.

FMF
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-04 15:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank-Michael Fischer
The problem with these semi-professional fonts is: they are missing pair
kerning information either partially or totally. E.g. URW Palladio comes
with kerning for ASCII characters only. Which makes it unusable for
professional publications in non-ASCII languages (Polish, German,
Hungarian, Swedish, Danish, Norvegian, Czech, Slovakian etc.). The
Original Palatino from Linotype takes the multi-lingual use of this font
into consideration and contains all kerning pair information. URW does
not. "Times New Roman" from MS has got the same problem. "Georgia" comes
with no kerning at all.
I believe the original purpose of the fonts was so that postscript
documents could be created (the postscript file would contain the Adobe
font names, thus your printer would use the real postscript fonts) and
viewed with free software.

If I'm not mistaken, LaTeX provides kerning for some of these fonts.
Post by Frank-Michael Fischer
Thus even when the single character shapes are identical between two
fonts one can still produce messy output. Who wants to see the
difference, should try to print "Walter Tow" in different fonts, size 12
or 14, on a decent laser printer, once with pair kerning on, once with
off. (It's a setting in OpenOffice under "Format -> Character.)
The following document compared Palatino Linotype (ttf font, purchased
from myfonts.com for the excellent polytonic greek) with the URW
Palladio font. I do not have the type 1 Palatino font (except on the
Level II postscript simm in my LaserJet 4)

http://mpeters.us/walter_tow.pdf

It was created using AbiWord print to pdf.
point sizes are 12 and 28

According to acroread, the fonts are embedded - so it shouldn't
substitute real Palatino when printed.
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-04 15:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank-Michael Fischer
The problem with these semi-professional fonts is: they are missing pair
kerning information either partially or totally. E.g. URW Palladio comes
with kerning for ASCII characters only. Which makes it unusable for
professional publications in non-ASCII languages (Polish, German,
Hungarian, Swedish, Danish, Norvegian, Czech, Slovakian etc.). The
Original Palatino from Linotype takes the multi-lingual use of this font
into consideration and contains all kerning pair information. URW does
not. "Times New Roman" from MS has got the same problem. "Georgia" comes
with no kerning at all.
I believe the original purpose of the fonts was so that postscript
documents could be created (the postscript file would contain the Adobe
font names, thus your printer would use the real postscript fonts) and
viewed with free software.

If I'm not mistaken, LaTeX provides kerning for some of these fonts.
Post by Frank-Michael Fischer
Thus even when the single character shapes are identical between two
fonts one can still produce messy output. Who wants to see the
difference, should try to print "Walter Tow" in different fonts, size 12
or 14, on a decent laser printer, once with pair kerning on, once with
off. (It's a setting in OpenOffice under "Format -> Character.)
The following document compared Palatino Linotype (ttf font, purchased
from myfonts.com for the excellent polytonic greek) with the URW
Palladio font. I do not have the type 1 Palatino font (except on the
Level II postscript simm in my LaserJet 4)

http://mpeters.us/walter_tow.pdf

It was created using AbiWord print to pdf.
point sizes are 12 and 28

According to acroread, the fonts are embedded - so it shouldn't
substitute real Palatino when printed.

Frank-Michael Fischer
2006-05-04 12:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Wilkinson
Post by Paul Smith
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
Font copyright status is ... interesting. It turns out that it's a lot
easier to protect the trademark name of a font than it is to protect the
shape of the letters. So an independent font "very nearly" the same as
the original font needs a different name -- and one different enough not
to fall foul of trademark law.
http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html (the "What is really strange
about Arial" paragraph)
The designer of Palatino, Herman Zapf, has been known to do off-name
versions of his own typefaces for other foundries (notably
Bitstream)...
And http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/palladio/ says
URW Palladio
Designed by: Hermann Zapf
Hope this helps,
James.
The problem with these semi-professional fonts is: they are missing pair
kerning information either partially or totally. E.g. URW Palladio comes
with kerning for ASCII characters only. Which makes it unusable for
professional publications in non-ASCII languages (Polish, German,
Hungarian, Swedish, Danish, Norvegian, Czech, Slovakian etc.). The
Original Palatino from Linotype takes the multi-lingual use of this font
into consideration and contains all kerning pair information. URW does
not. "Times New Roman" from MS has got the same problem. "Georgia" comes
with no kerning at all.

Thus even when the single character shapes are identical between two
fonts one can still produce messy output. Who wants to see the
difference, should try to print "Walter Tow" in different fonts, size 12
or 14, on a decent laser printer, once with pair kerning on, once with
off. (It's a setting in OpenOffice under "Format -> Character.)

BTW the missing pair kerning feature is a major obstacle for the
spreading of koffice, since this product has no kerning feature at all,
even when the font has got the pair kerning information.

FMF
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-04 12:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Post by Michael A. Peters
Post by Paul Smith
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
I believe they are font metric compatible. I have no clue if beyond
that, they look the same - I never use that font myself. But the font
metric is what is most important for postscript level 2 compat.
James Wilkinson
2006-05-04 12:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.
Font copyright status is ... interesting. It turns out that it's a lot
easier to protect the trademark name of a font than it is to protect the
shape of the letters. So an independent font "very nearly" the same as
the original font needs a different name -- and one different enough not
to fall foul of trademark law.

http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html (the "What is really strange
about Arial" paragraph)

Intriguingly, http://www.ms-studio.com/articlesarialsia.html says:
The designer of Palatino, Herman Zapf, has been known to do off-name
versions of his own typefaces for other foundries (notably
Bitstream)...

And http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/palladio/ says
URW Palladio
Designed by: Hermann Zapf

Hope this helps,

James.
--
E-mail address: james | ... File not found, I'll load something *I* think
@westexe.demon.co.uk | is interesting.
Paul Smith
2006-05-03 19:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Peters
Post by Paul Smith
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
Thanks, Michael. I could not imagine that URW Palladio L corresponds
to Palatino.

Paul
Paul Smith
2006-05-03 19:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Dear All

Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?

Thanks in advance,

Paul
Michael A. Peters
2006-05-03 19:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Smith
Dear All
Is there some free T1 Palatino fonts?
Thanks in advance,
Paul
Yes - it is part of the URW replacements for the "base 35" postscript
fonts.
Font name is URW Palladio L
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