Fedora as a LTSP server?

[Hugo Cisneiros]

Hi!

I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came with a
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were supporting
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

I did everything ok and got the server and clients working fine. I began
logging
in on the clients, and when I got 8 to 10 users logged at the same time, the
load average on server was SO HIGH! 15.0! Everything just started to get lagged
and unusable. Since the guys told that they did many clients at the same time,
I
began trying to fix this problem:

1) Mounted the root partition with the noatime option, saving I/O access.
2) Prelinked EVERYTHING on the system
3) Tweaked KDE and kded (this one was eating a lot of cpu)
4) Turned off all services that I didn't need
5) Tweaked HD with hdparm

And the results: same thing. I tried with three different servers:

First:
Fedora Core 3, latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
KDE 3.3 as Window Manager of choice
Celeron 2.0Ghz
1.5GB RAM
120gb HD

Second:
Fedora Core 3, latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
XFCE as Window Manager of choice
Semprom 2.0Ghz
512MB RAM
40gb HD

Third:
Fedora Core 3 (x86_64), latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
KDE 3.3 as Window Manager of choice
Athlon64 2.2Ghz
512MB RAM
80GB HD

All the same results: High load average, high usage of cpu, no memory problems
(no heavy swap usage) and all clients so slow! :(

I tried many things, then a friend who has done that sugested me to try another
distro, and I tried a KNOPPIX based one just to test. Everything worked fine,
load average was below 0.! Why? :(

Now I'm forced to use another distro for this, but I really want to use Fedora
Core as the server, because I like it so much and it has many resources. So,
anyone here can help me find what's the problem? :(

Thanks!


[]'s
Hugo

[Les Mikesell]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came with a
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

Look here:
http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were supporting
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

You really want more RAM than that - maybe 4 gigs - and probably a
dual xeon server for 30+ thin clients.

[Hugo Cisneiros]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came

with a

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

I'll try that. But do you know how it differs from a Fedora Core base
distribution? Because if it's just about installing LTSP on a base
distribution's installating, i'm already doing that.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were

supporting

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

You really want more RAM than that - maybe 4 gigs - and probably a
dual xeon server for 30+ thin clients.

I searched google and found out many people saying that they got working
computer labs with ltsp and on average 15 clients, just fine with these
servers, like p4 2.0Ghz and 512mb of ram.

I also asked a friend of mine yesterday and he said to me that he had set up 3
computer labs with LTSP just fine, but with other distribution (he doesn't use
fedora core). I said my server hardware (P4 2.0Ghz with 1.5GB of RAM) and he
said that it's more than good enough.

So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
--
Les Mikesell
les at futuresource.com

[]'s
Hugo

[Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu]

Hi Hugo,

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

We implemented LTSP on Fedora Core for a school board in North
Battleford, Saskatchewan, Canada.

I would agree with Les in that you need more RAM, but I don't think you
need 4 GB. Generally you want to set aside 512 MB for the OS, and
roughly 50 MB for each thin client. So, in your case you'll need:

512 MB + (30 clients x 50 MB) = ~ 2 GB

I think 2 GB would be a good starting point. After that, watch the
usage and add more RAM, if needed.

HTH,

Ranbir

[Les Mikesell]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Les Mikesell
http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

I'll try that. But do you know how it differs from a Fedora Core base
distribution? Because if it's just about installing LTSP on a base
distribution's installating, i'm already doing that.

It *is* a fedora base distribution with the other stuff included in
the distribution isos. There is a scripted setup that configures
everything for you (including some somewhat unrelated but handy
things like setting the OO.org default to save in .doc format).
If you do a 2-nic configuration with clients on the 'inside' net
it will just come up working after the install. It would be possible
to pick up the add-on packages to find what the scripts do, but
if you are just starting out it would be much easier to install
from their isos and then if you do have any problems you can get
help from some large-scale users on the mailing list with exactly
the same setup. Or at least drop their version on a test box so
you can pull out the parts you want.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

See http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/index.php/Hardware for server
recommendations and hop on the k12osn mailing list.
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
There are people there with plenty of experience. The pegged CPU issue
may be a bug in a particular version of something or there may be a
workaround.

Also, gnome is a memory hog - some people are using icewm instead.

[Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu]

Hi Hugo,

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

We implemented LTSP on Fedora Core for a school board in North
Battleford, Saskatchewan, Canada.

I would agree with Les in that you need more RAM, but I don't think you
need 4 GB. Generally you want to set aside 512 MB for the OS, and
roughly 50 MB for each thin client. So, in your case you'll need:

512 MB + (30 clients x 50 MB) = ~ 2 GB

I think 2 GB would be a good starting point. After that, watch the
usage and add more RAM, if needed.

HTH,

Ranbir

[Les Mikesell]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Les Mikesell
http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

I'll try that. But do you know how it differs from a Fedora Core base
distribution? Because if it's just about installing LTSP on a base
distribution's installating, i'm already doing that.

It *is* a fedora base distribution with the other stuff included in
the distribution isos. There is a scripted setup that configures
everything for you (including some somewhat unrelated but handy
things like setting the OO.org default to save in .doc format).
If you do a 2-nic configuration with clients on the 'inside' net
it will just come up working after the install. It would be possible
to pick up the add-on packages to find what the scripts do, but
if you are just starting out it would be much easier to install
from their isos and then if you do have any problems you can get
help from some large-scale users on the mailing list with exactly
the same setup. Or at least drop their version on a test box so
you can pull out the parts you want.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

See http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/index.php/Hardware for server
recommendations and hop on the k12osn mailing list.
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
There are people there with plenty of experience. The pegged CPU issue
may be a bug in a particular version of something or there may be a
workaround.

Also, gnome is a memory hog - some people are using icewm instead.

[Hugo Cisneiros]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came

with a

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

I'll try that. But do you know how it differs from a Fedora Core base
distribution? Because if it's just about installing LTSP on a base
distribution's installating, i'm already doing that.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were

supporting

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

You really want more RAM than that - maybe 4 gigs - and probably a
dual xeon server for 30+ thin clients.

I searched google and found out many people saying that they got working
computer labs with ltsp and on average 15 clients, just fine with these
servers, like p4 2.0Ghz and 512mb of ram.

I also asked a friend of mine yesterday and he said to me that he had set up 3
computer labs with LTSP just fine, but with other distribution (he doesn't use
fedora core). I said my server hardware (P4 2.0Ghz with 1.5GB of RAM) and he
said that it's more than good enough.

So, these problems with me are happening only with Fedora Core. I must speak
with someone who has implemented Fedora Core and LTSP just fine, but I can't
find anyone that did it.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
--
Les Mikesell
les at futuresource.com

[]'s
Hugo

[Hugo Cisneiros]

Hi!

I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came with a
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were supporting
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

I did everything ok and got the server and clients working fine. I began
logging
in on the clients, and when I got 8 to 10 users logged at the same time, the
load average on server was SO HIGH! 15.0! Everything just started to get lagged
and unusable. Since the guys told that they did many clients at the same time,
I
began trying to fix this problem:

1) Mounted the root partition with the noatime option, saving I/O access.
2) Prelinked EVERYTHING on the system
3) Tweaked KDE and kded (this one was eating a lot of cpu)
4) Turned off all services that I didn't need
5) Tweaked HD with hdparm

And the results: same thing. I tried with three different servers:

First:
Fedora Core 3, latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
KDE 3.3 as Window Manager of choice
Celeron 2.0Ghz
1.5GB RAM
120gb HD

Second:
Fedora Core 3, latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
XFCE as Window Manager of choice
Semprom 2.0Ghz
512MB RAM
40gb HD

Third:
Fedora Core 3 (x86_64), latest kernel (2.6.10-1.766_FC3)
KDE 3.3 as Window Manager of choice
Athlon64 2.2Ghz
512MB RAM
80GB HD

All the same results: High load average, high usage of cpu, no memory problems
(no heavy swap usage) and all clients so slow! :(

I tried many things, then a friend who has done that sugested me to try another
distro, and I tried a KNOPPIX based one just to test. Everything worked fine,
load average was below 0.! Why? :(

Now I'm forced to use another distro for this, but I really want to use Fedora
Core as the server, because I like it so much and it has many resources. So,
anyone here can help me find what's the problem? :(

Thanks!


[]'s
Hugo

[Les Mikesell]

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I always used Red Hat/Fedora Core on many servers, but last month I came with a
new project: Fedora as a LTSP server. Anyone here has done it? I'm asking
because I'm getting some difficulties.

Look here:
http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/
Just ignore the education-related stuff if you don't need it. If you
install from their isos you get a normal fedora plus ltsp and
some other packages. There is a good mailing list too.

Post by Hugo Cisneiros
I read many things about LTSP and many people said that they were supporting
like 30-40 users on a P4 2.0 Server with 512mb of ram. "That's great!" - I
thought. So I began installing a LTSP server on Fedora.

You really want more RAM than that - maybe 4 gigs - and probably a
dual xeon server for 30+ thin clients.